Is this okay?

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Im not a parent but I want to ask about age appropriate/ asd appropriate punishments.

Is it okay to chase your kid around the house with a belt and hit them hard until they do what you say?
Is it ok to get angry/become agressive and start yelling and threatening them because of their behavior? (eg. they are yelling/swearing because they are stressed out and you tell them "shut the f**k up or ill break your neck")
Is it ok to tell your children "no one will ever like you except me, so do what I say"?
is it okay to hit your children harder as they get older or if they dont learn to change their behavior?
do you think that children with asd learn to behave properly if you belt/hit them?
Is it okay to tell your children to "keep doing it" or "let me cut/hurt you more" if you see them cutting?
how do you give your children enough things so that they can fit in, without spoiling them?
how much money should you spend on giving your children what they want?
how often should you say no when your child wants something?
how do you distinguish between the behaviors that your child can and cant control?
what is the right way to punish someone with an asd?
how do you help your child with autism fit in?
how can you tell if your child with autism is just being "naughty"?

certain people seem to think that there is no such thing as asd/ mental illness and that if you misbehave as a result of the disability you are just "naughty". they also think that its okay to smack harder/be more aggresive when punishing you as you get older (they seem to have no respect for self esteem etc).

No. That's called physical abuse, and it's illegal and can get CPS removing your kid from your home. It's also extremely psychologically damaging, linked with PTSD, depression, anxiety disorders, ODD and conduct disorder, dissociative disorders and a pile of other potential issues.



No. Most parents have probably done this once or twice out of sheer frustration, but if it's a regular pattern, it's known as 'harsh discipline' and is linked with insecure attachment, ODD and conduct disorders, anxiety and depression and a pile of other things.



No. This is emotional abuse. It contributes to increased anxiety, depression, insecure attachment, ODD and conduct disorders, and negative self-talk.



No. It is legal to hit a child as long as you do not leave a mark lasting 24 hours or more, but even within the legal limits, regular use of physical punishment is a form of 'harsh discipline' associated with the list of consequences I described above.



No. Autism is not cured by physical punishment. It is a neurological problem, not a behaviour problem. And physical punishment isn't even helpful with behaviour problems.



No. Cutting is symptom of a psychological disorder, and should be treated by a trained professional. And cutting can also cause scarring and potentially dangerous blood loss. Threatening to cut the child yourself is even worse.



Buying a kid things won't spoil them. It's when you a) give them things in place of love and attention, or b) reward misbehaviour by giving in to their demands that kids get spoiled. If you can afford it, giving a kid tons of expensive toys isn't a problem as long as you also give them lots of attention and stick to whatever limits you set.



Whatever you can afford to spend. It doesn't really make a difference except to give them more expensive tastes, which isn't a problem if they can afford expensive things.



When saying yes will cause problems in some way, such as inconvenience, cost, etc, that are worse than the benefits the child will get from you saying yes. Or when the child is asking in an inappropriate way, despite knowing a better way to ask.



This requires learning how to read your child. Most parents will get this wrong sometimes, so it's important to be flexible, and to as much as possible pick responses that work well for both types of behaviour.

For example, if a child is pitching a fit wanting something in the store that you've told them they can't have, don't give them the thing, but act sympathetic and take them somewhere quiet to calm down. If it's manipulation, they won't get what they want, while if it's overload, they'll get out of the overloading situation.



It depends on the kid. For high functioning older kids, it's a good idea to calmly explain the reason why what they did was wrong, and then give them a punishment that's thematically related to what they did wrong - which is the same as with older NT kids.

For lower functioning kids who wouldn't understand the explanation, generally you discipline them like an NT toddler. Only rarely use any punishment, with punishment mostly being removing privileges, putting them in time out briefly or just saying 'no'. Mostly just handle it by redirecting their attention and by not letting misbehaviour get them something rewarding.



I have no idea.



This is something you figure out by knowing the child's abilities and personality very well.



Those people are wrong.

Are you in southern, central, or northern Saskatchewan?

None of that is ok to do to any child asd or not.

I agree.

Huh?

I think you said somewhere that you live in Saskatchewan.

I've never met anyone from there. I've read up on it a little bit.

I was just curious.

Most people on the spectrum are self-disciplined anyway for that matter. It's why we're seen as professorial.

As a parent, i am very leery of discussing specifics of punishment online. I have been told it is a no-win situation--if you claim you don't believe in corporal punishment you come off as completely a pushover; if you do believe in corporal punishment it can be construed as condoning abuse.

That said...

Each question down to the cutting part sounds like abuse to me--none of them appropriate punishments for NT or ASD children.

It would be helpful to know the actual situation instead of having it phrased as a hypothetical question.

The money part depends on the means of the parents IMO. We determine how much to give our kids based on their needs, not necessarily what it will take to "fit in." IMO, if you give your kids stuff so that they fit in with the rest of the crowd, your motives are skewed. I do try to make sure my kids are dressed so as not to look shabby and that they do not stand out unnecessarily. We have the means to do this. But if i didn't, my standard would be neat and clean, if a bit shabby.

But i don't give them stuff just so that they "fit in." If they don't fit in on the strength of their own selves, they won't fit in anyway. My kids are sweethearts, and have lots of friends, but are not really the "popular kids." They are a little offbeat, in their own little worlds at times and with quirky interests. This does not get them the blessing of the popular crowd. But they have the respect of their teachers and their peers for their uniqueness.

To help your ASD child fit in: IMO, first and foremost, make sure they are neat and clean--regular baths, teeth brushed, and clean clothes. If they smell offensive or have dirty teeth, it will be hard to win friends. I have one who complains loudly about baths, but this is a necessity even if he hates it. I try to make sure the water is warm, etc, but his sensory issues take 2nd place here to making sure he is not the smelly kid.

Help them find their strengths. If they can earn respect for their strengths, people are sometimes more understanding of their weaknesses. Also, if they can have one or two good friends, i find that for an ASD kid this works better than a large group. My kids are calmer and enjoy themselves more in a small group or one on one hanging out. I make the effort to help them get together with those friends.

Hope this helps. If you wish, you may pm me if you have more questions.

Not Ok, for any/ all of these. I suspect you know this but need validation from parents. I am guessing your parents/family did/said all these things and you are trying to make sense of it. There is no sense. It is abuse.


These questions are harder and more subjective, so it is going to be hard to treat them all comprehensively in one post. Finances are tricky and parents have different philosophies. Families have different incomes as well. They don't always tell kids if they are "poor" so kids may not get a lot of reasons (or they may not be the right ones) for why they do not get enough stuff. Some families have different values on short term things, or just have different values from the consumer culture.

IMO, it is good to try (if you can) to give your kids decent enough clothes/stuff so they are not made fun of for it but this is not always possible as you have so many other expenses to worry about than if your kids look cool. There are long term things like retirement, and college for the kids and often people settle in neighborhoods that are above their income/spending strata for the schools or safety, or other reasons. Despite my parents having been frugal, and me having suffered for it socially above and beyond my own social issues, I understand my dad not wanting to waste money on stupid stuff (or stuff he thought was stupid) just to make it easier to be friends with shallow kids and avoid their torment. I probably would have just been tormented for the other things more, I think, had the spending issue been different.

The spoiling issue is harder b/c depending on where you live, keeping up with Aiden and Sophie, might pretty much equate to spoiling. It is nice to try to make them earn some of what they get, and that helps a little.

I would not even base "no" on some arbitrary number. With my son, he is very unmaterialistic so our "nos" have to do with behavior more than material things b/c he very rarely wants things. When he does it is usually a book, so 90% of the time it is a "yes." He is shy about asking for stuff, anyway, so for us this is a non-issue. His clothing preferences are sensory and rigidity-based not on fashion or $$$ as a proxy for social status. Even if he understood that, he would not care.

As far as when he has control and doesn't, sometimes it is more art than science. Much is experience, as I know what sets him off by now. He used to do social experiments on me to try to predict reactions, but not so much now. At this point the most of what I deal with is meltdowns as opposed to tantrums. You can kind of tell when he is attempting to be manipulative b/c he is really bad at it, and it is rare. If your parents/family is the type who refuses to see the signs, then they won't. You have to want to suss it out or you end up with confirmation bias. The question about being naughty fits in her too. Sensory issues, issues with transitions --those things are clear to me, at this point. It has to do with knowing your kid. Even the "naughtiness" is different from what NTs do b/c he does not care about what they care about. There are some overlaps, like not wanting to go to bed etc. but even that works out better when we follow appropriate protocols and give him notice so he doesn't get stuck on something long right before bed.

As far as punishments, some kids with ASD respond to standard punishments (mine doesn't) and that varies with the child. I never punish by taking away social things b.c that would be like taking away math homework from and NT. It is something he needs--and I am lucky if he will do it. The only time I ever think about it, is ion terms of if I think our day is such that we are going to get kicked out, if we go. But I do not view that as punishment as opposed to being proactive and knowing when something is just not going to work--and is just an unfortunate natural consequence of what is going on that day.

My child has almost no desire to fit in, so it really is my issue as opposed to his, in that I want to prepare him for a world that is very social. I can tell him if something is going to be expected or unexpected or received poorly, and proper behavior but that is about it. Parents who have kids who are willing to give up personal preferences to be with others have more options, at least when they are little. Playdates are 90% parent social time and so if the parents are social, often kids can have friends by default. Given that ASD is probably at least partially hereditary, this maybe does not go well, all the time. It depends on the neurology and social skills of the parents.

Sometimes social skill groups can work, but it has to be the right kind of group. here they just dump kids with behavioral issues there, so it is useless in our school district. I don't think they are taught social skills, so much as being monitored and segregated. Speech can be useful b/c it is usually a group where they practice communication skills, and play games and practice social skills as they practice communication--pragmatic or otherwise.

I am not sure I answered what you really want to know. If you are asking what are parents responsibilities here--I think it is tough b/c there are a lot of moving parts to helping your kids become social and kids don't always want what society tells them to want, either. I was undiagnosed and any social advice I got, was pretty unwelcome, and I ignored it. I don't think a diagnosis and more informed/professional help would have mattered in the end b/c the costs/benefits were not there for me to be willing to change myself to fit in better, even if I had more capability.

ASDMommyASDkid, i wondered about this too--whether OP is speaking of things that are happening to him-- and i think you may have hit the nail on the head on the first questions.

The second set of questions seem related to neglect. To the OP: if you are being abused and/or neglected, is there a counselor or other professional you can talk to? As i said before, sometimes the money part is subjective--depending on financial state of the family and the value put on certain things.

On the subject of neglect...i treat my children approximately the same. Not that if i buy a blue shirt for one, i buy a blue shirt for all. But in that one child is not dressed very well while another is dressed very shabbily. All are clean and neat; all have approximately the same amount of playthings. Not all have the same wants and needs, but we try to be fair to each child. If there is a significant imbalance between what a family can afford, and what is given to a dependent child; or significant imbalances between children (such as one having very nice things while another is very shabby), this is also not fair IMO. All should be fed, clothed, and sheltered according to what the values and financial ability of the household.

Hope this helps.

Is this how your parents treat you?

it's not okay to do that to any child.




It's not okay to do that to any child.



I have no idea. My mom used to tell me kids wouldn't like me if I do X.



Its not okay to hit any child when they are older. Kids outgrow spankings because it quits working and it's not very effective because it only lasts a few seconds. Plus they understand the word no so they don't need to be hit to learn to listen and you can reason with them now.




I think that depends on any child. Some kids act out more when they are abused and some are very obedient and never test their limits because they are so afraid and some just avoid their abusers by hiding from them and avoiding being around them. I used to hide from my nanny every time she was at my house because I was afraid of her. I didn't like being yelled and hit by her and I could never seem to stay out of trouble so I avoided her and spent all my time hiding in my parents closet until she was gone.



It's not okay to threaten to hurt any child.



Kids don't need lot of toys and luxuries or even cell phones.



It varies. I wouldn't spoil them too much.



A lot in my opinion. If you give in every time, they don't really learn to deal with the real world if they are ever told no or can't get what they want.



I still wonder that myself as a parent. I say if you can't seem to control your child and no matter what consequence you give them and they still do it, time to go to a doctor and see what is going on and what you can do to help them.



I think that depends on the ASD child. My mom has sent me to the stairs and sent me to my room, taken away my Barbie dolls, taken away my bike or computer or TV privileges, not allowed to leave the yard or play with any friends.



My mom used to tell me what not to do or else kids will think I am weird or tease me. She would even tell me if I would stop doing this or that, kids won't run from me.



Good question. My mom told me she could tell I could help it whenever she punished me and I wouldn't do it again and I stopped every time.

I didn't even make it down the whole list. This stuff is abusive regardless of whether the child is NT or ASD. Here is a good article on discipline and how a lot of people do it wrong.

On a side note, I handle things completely different depending on which child I'm dealing with. I expect a lot more from my NT daughter because she understands things her brother doesn't. She hits him? Time out, chastising, etc. He hits her? I physically block him, remind him not to hit, remove him (or her) from the situation. He doesn't know how to properly express emotions yet and it's our job to redirect/teach, not punish. Punishment would be pointless and stupid.

Yes, I am in Saskatchewan. I currently live in the South-east section of the province, right near Regina.

It's an OK place to live, in my opinion. It does get very cold in winter (-40 celcius), which I don't like. And apparently we have a higher rate of violent crime than the rest of Canada, but that's concentrated in certain neighborhoods which I don't happen to live in.

We don't do daylight savings time, which is a real plus. Daylight savings time can literally cost lives - accident rates go up for a couple weeks after the clocks change. When my Dad was growing up in Manitoba, daylight savings time used to make him miserable for two weeks every year. Although when I lived in Manitoba for a year, I didn't even notice because my body doesn't have a very precise clock.

Hey, I'm from Winnipeg, Manitoba - Saskatchewan's next door neighbor!

Go Jets Go

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To the OP, some of your questions are very troubling - if you need help, you might want to consider talking to someone (guidance counsellor, teacher, police officer). I hope this helps...