16 year old possible aspie harassing siblings

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For any of you who don't know my story, I have a few posts on here about my son and his sister and brothers. They are titled "I could use some help,please....." and "doctor visit not what I hoped for". I could use some advice on a few behaviors of the 16 yr. old.

You see he has no patience for his younger siblings most times. He has a 7 yr old HFA sister who even I admit can be very obnoxious and rude, but he over reacts to everything she does. He tells her all the time that he hates her. He thinks that everything she does is on purpose to annoy him. I am talking about normal girly seven year old stuff, like dancing in the living room or being silly. He just can't stand it and certainly doesn't understand when I tell him that is what 7 year olds do. When put on the spot about his behavior he admits that he does love her, but still says that she does it all on purpose just to bug him. It is like he has no tolerance for her being a child. When her HFA shows, he calls her a ret*d and tells her she is stupid. He can be so mean, thankfully she doesn't pick up on alot of it, I guess a good HFA quality for now.

He seems to be so much more tolerant of his 2 1/2 yr old brother who is dx'd autistic spectrum and much worse than his sister. It is like he identifies with him more or something. He cannot however tolerate when the little guy has a meltdown or is screaming for no apparent ( at least to us) reason. The he will tell him to shut up.

His 12 yr old brother bears the brunt of his anger though. He is very critical of him, mocking things he does and telling him he is stupid. He will hit him and try bullying him into playing with him and then can't understand why he doesn't want to play. God forbid his brother has a different interest or wants to do something different than him.

His agenda always comes first, a good example of this is when he wants the computer, he just takes it, usually responding to thier pleas of "but I was using it" with, " tough, I need it and what I am doing is more important".

I have tried everything to stop this, but nothing works. How can I teach him to be more tolerant of the other kids? How can I teach him that sometimes whatever it is that he is thinking about at that moment is not more important than what everyone else id doing? I deal with this "I'm the only person in the world" mentality from all of them ( i think it is an autistic trait), but he is by far the worst. I would love any help you can offer. Thanks

I know other people will be better to answer what to do, however I will be very interested, because I have a similar problem with my 12 year old!

My son is DX'ed Aspie, however his siblings are 4 and 2 1/2. He is "mostly" ok with the 2 1/2 year old, and was with the 4 year old when she was younger. But if the "noise" gets out of hand, he hits the wall, and he seems to have low tolerance for his sisters "behaviours" and her "stupidity". Now, she is NT, however being four, well, most four year olds "don't know much". No matter how many times you try and say, "she is a young child, this is how young children behave", or "she is not supposed to no anymore, you are being mean", he just does not get it.

I know you hopping to get in with a new doctor soon regarding all three of your kids right? I really think your 16 year old is on the spectrum too, this would be a good thing to document, these sorts of outbursts, the source, and the outcome. It may help a new doctor see exactly "What" issues you are having with him. (and the others of course).

In the mean time, you should treat him like he is AS. Don't let the fights turn into "you don't love your siblings". That isn't fair, he does not compute at that emotional level. Instead, work more to setting boundaries. If he has an outburst with his sister "dancing", tell him "that is a normal thing for your sister to do, you do not have the right to talk to her that way, why don't you go do something else, or come see me to intervene, as your reaction is not appropriate.". At this time, my son has been flat out told that he does not have the right to say anything of of disciplinary measure with the kids, he is to see me if they are misbehaving! It seems to be helping, sure, that launches you into tattle tale land, but that is better then crying toddler and sensory overload land!

Also, respect the fact he probably does have Sensory Integration disorder. It may be a good idea to get some info online, and show it too him, just say casually, "hey, I think I might now know you can't stand listening to your siblings cry!" And show it to him. Chances are he will identify with it immediately. Then, you have to put together a plan for how he can avoid these meltdowns With him. Perhaps giving him a sanctuary in his room, with a little T.V. and mini bar would go a long way to helping! (Kinda kidding about the mini bar! ) Also, teach him to "walk away" from the noise, instead of trying to "stop it". Ear plugs anyone?

I feel really sorry for my son, we live in a very small house with no real way to "escape or retreat" from the rampaging young ones. It is not an ideal house configuration for a teen with AS. However, it is the best we can do for now. Still, it is equally hard to put up with the flying off the handle and freak outs that he has. I am "learning" to take a deep breath, and say "it is not his fault". Then I go talk to him, and ask him what the problem is, or tell him he should have come to see me, as he knows he is not supposed to yell at or discipline the kids for any reason. It is hard, but I am "learning".

It is important though, that if the younger ones are doing something that is not appropriate, you do talk to them about it too. Maybe harder with your youngest one, but with your daughter, it is important for your son to see she does not "always" get away with it. After all, I am sure she is no Angel!

WOW! Are we living in simialr houses,lol. So many things you said, could have come right out of my mouth. The thing that struct me the most is when you talked about the " not having the right to say anything of a disciplinary measure", this is something we are always telling him. He will even tell me things like, "well you are not doing anything, so I had to",lol. No, no I am not grounding the 7 year old for singing her alphabet,lol. You are right and she is no angel...haha, but I do try to discipline when needed. The odd thing is that she can understand sometimes when I explain to her that he yelled at her because her shoes squeaked and it hurt him. Well actually she says, "he's so wierd", but accepts it. I hope others will have some more good advice to add.

Sometimes I wish they could make a hearaid to "decrease noise" perhaps with the exception of voices... LOL!

I think you need to be really firm with him, set the rules. If he yells at her because her shoes squeeked, then tell him "You know you are not allowed to yell at her or correct her behavior, I would like you to go to your room for awhile until you calm down, and can tell me what you should have done, instead of yelling at her".

He is going to be so used to the pattern of yelling, and hollering and screaming, he is going to try and "engage" you in a fight, he is going to say "you where not doing anything" or "there was nothing I could do, her shoes are ANNOYING!! !"

Tell him it does not matter, he needs to go calm down.

If he does not seek you out (my son often goes and hides under his blankets and won't come out). Then seek him out after 10 or 15 minutes, and calmly ask if he has any other ideas to what he could or should have done.

He may say "no". And you can then tell him what you would "rather" he did. Simply say, "you have very sensitive hearing, she can't help it if her shoes squeek, and most people don't really mind squeeking shoes. Next time this happens, you could... Leave the room, put in ear plugs, cover your ears ...).

One thing I am going to suggest, is you can get cordless headphones for the T.V. He can put them on, and even walk around a little, and still listen to the T.V. show or game he is playing with. This will mean that the background noise, like a noisy brother or sister, and "squeeky shoes" and other nonsense is considerably muffled. It won't cause a competition of noise or sensory overload to him. Brother and sister can just be "kids" and he can listen to whatever it was he was doing!

Carol,

I'm not certain what methods you have tried. I don't have kids, but my mother had six of us (one girl and five boys), my father was gone all week and she was on her own. So I will tell you how she kept things in line (she also had us when she was young).


She tolerated absolutely no disrespect of anyone. She also gave no warnings at all. If you did it, you suffered the consequences immediately and they were severe and absolute. For instance, if we even left a toy out, it was gone and we never got a replacement. If anyone fought over a toy, no matter whose it was, it was gone and no replacement. She would have probably taken the computer from them all, but with school the way it is now, that isn't an option so I would say password the thing so you control it. Never give them the password or let them see it. If he takes the computer, take it back and don't let him on it. Send him to his room with nothing. If he destroys things, don't replace them...ever. He'll get the message quick. If he calls any of them a name, tell him disrespect is unacceptable and if he's disrespectful he gets no respect in return, then send him to his room. Don't allow games, TV or music in there. Most of all, don't even tolerate one word of it. It is completely unacceptable, ever, for any reason and he must know that emphatically. No car, no going out, no anything until he shows respect.

Unfortunately, 17 year olds are experiencing raging hormones that act like super PMS for years. It's no wonder he magnifies certain things, just think about it from that perspective and you'll understand why. In addition, for whatever reason, teenagers (almost all of them) think they are the center of the universe and the world must revolve around them. I come from a huge family (both parents had nine siblings and they all had six to ten kids), so I saw this in all my cousins, second cousins, brothers and so on. AS and NT alike. The good news is that they outgrow it eventually. The bad news is that it goes on for years! Argh.

Oh and the physcial outbursts with the other kids? No way. Shut that down now. If you don't have the dad or an uncle to put a halt to that and you can't control it, I'd call the police in to scare him. My mother had to do that to one of my older brothers when he was hanging with a bad crowd and dabbling in drugs (this is back in the 70's). She couldn't get him under control so she sent him to jail for a night. He stopped immediately and straightened up.

These are the best I can come up with. I hope some of them help. Good luck to you and your kids.

I can respect what you are saying, we tried it ourselves in our house.

0 tolarance based on a Dr. Phil Show. We ended up removing everything from my son, emptying his room, grounded, in absolute lockdown. In the end he was depressed, suicidal, threatening to run away, and pulled a knife on me.

Never before, had he shown any indications of a defiant disorder, but he was just about ready for a bed in a mental ward, and my husband and I after he pulled the knife on me, considered "if we where safe and the kids where safe" with him living with us. We considered our options, including surrendering him to another family member, or CAS, because we where scared out of our witts!

We opted to try one other thing. Reward positive behavior, ignore attention seeking and bad behavior as much as we could, or "correct it through coaching / removing him from the problem". Slowly, we gave him all his stuff back, and within 3 months, we had a son we could live with again!

Aspies need firm rules to follow, lots of coaching, consistant disapline yes... but they also need understanding and some room to breath. I firmly believe that they can't comprehend this iron fist type of disapline.

My son, would do something wrong, and would be doled out a punishment. When the behavior continued, it would escalate, he just did not "get" that he could control his behavior or his actions, thus not suffer the consequences. To him, it was completely out of his control.

Amen! In my opinion, this is the prime reason why there is so much bullying today. There are no consequences for unacceptable behavior. Kids don't have the same respect for adults and authority figures that they used to. They fear no one. Peers have become the role models to be looked up to and respected. God help us all. It's a scary world when the inmates are running the assylum.

Two words: Ground him.

Again, I agree wholeheartedly, and even today my son does get "grounded" much more then his peers. Firm uncompromising consequences have to be present.

The thing is, my son DOES respect authority, he DOES respect adults, and he is has become very nice to people, and has very good manners.

Still, if you have an Aspie child, and that child is in the middle of a meltdown, you can't just "lay down the law" and get them to "snap out of it". These children have a legitimate neurological issue, many have sensory integration issues, and almost non existent theory of mind. They do not feel, interpret or experience their environment and the things in it the same way as an NT child. They are not just bratty NT children!

That said, is it possible to have a bratty Aspie? Absolutely! But most aspie children tend to have a strong sense of justice and view the world in a more black and white manner. Use that! Give them a protocol to follow. Make them accountable to it. But not putting them into volatile situations in the first place, or setting them up to go off has to be a play a part. And the older aspie child, has to be TAUGHT coping skills, TAUGHT HOW to turn around their meltdown. Just "laying down the law with a firm hand" is not going to TEACH them anything!

And suddenly “springing “iron fist rules” on a 17 year old who has mental issues? Are you kidding me? That is NOT GOING TO FLY! The kid could lash out and do something very very stupid and rash, anything from run away, to physically hurt someone or hurt himself feeling that he can no longer “cope with life“. Then everyone will be standing around scratching their heads wondering “what went wrong”.

A 17 year old needs rules to follow, yes. He needs to be educated in “proper conduct”. But he also needs to be a part of the solution, or you are going to go nowhere real real fast! As with any Aspie having meltdowns, you have to get to the source of the problem, and try to head them off before they even happen!

Not taking the perspective of another is one of the core problems with AS. This problem needs to be addressed early before the behaviors become rigid. Is his 12-year old brother his only playmate or companion?

Apparently, your eldest needs quite a bit of help in social understanding and he may have some sensory issues too. I think a family oriented cognitive behavioral therapy would ge a good idea along with getting the oldest son his own computer in a space that is his alone. Aspies need their downtime and private spaces.

Again, I don't think you can teach these things this late in the game without professional help. That's not your fault as you have several children with problems and you can't go at it alone.

Good luck!

SeriousGirl: I don't see what post you are quoting from!

Honestly though, you can't "scare" an Aspie having a meltdown into better behaivor... You can't "shut that down". They don't have an off button!

I wasn't talking about your kids. That was a commentary on parenting today in general.

An aspie might not intuitively understand the social rules and boundaries but drawing the line in the first place is an absolute necessity if they are going to learn at all. They have to first know what the rules are. I have a very oppositional kid too so I know where you're coming from. I can't tell you how many broken windows, holes in walls and damaged property we've experienced over the years, but if the lesson was important enough to me (and to society), I was willing to endure a meltdown over it. That's my litmus test - is this one of society's rules? It the answer is yes, then it must be disciplined. What you deem a consequence is where you make accomodations for an aspie. But society's rules are for everyone. And that's leads to part two of discipline, the education.

No real teaching occurs during a meltdown, obviously we all know that. Safety is the priority. Later comes the teaching. Give the facts: society has rules and names for breaking the rules- assault, battery, slander, theft, disturbing the peace, distruction of property, etc. We need rules to get along together and live peacefully. Society has consequences for breaking rules - paying fines, suspension of privledges, community service, incarceration, etc. It's my job as a parent to teach the rules of society so he can learn how to get along in the world. This is how the world works. If you like your freedom, you need to follow these rules. You know you've done your job and the lesson is learned when your kid removes themself from the scene to avoid breaking a rule. They will learn, it will take time, and they will regress under stress (and during puberty). The lesson is too important not to enforce though.

PS also important is teaching that some people think they are above the law and don't have to follow the rules. Most people do though and most of those who don't get punished.

I was quoting from the original post. My opinion is the OP needs professional help as she has several problems in family dynamics that are probably inter-related and are probably going to be hard to seperate.

Well you can't institute tough love late in the game, for sure. If possible, everyone should have had rules from the beginning that everyone has to abide by.

Each new sibling with a neuro problem is going to create new stresses on the older sibs, both aspie and NT. There is no way around that and the family will become dysfunctional if the parents aren't equipped to deal with it on a consistent basis.

LoL! I read that post 6 times (and all the other ones trying to find it) but I swear I did not see it! Must be my reading "disorder".

I appreciate what you said in your two last posts, very well said!

This worked fine with my oldest brother and I and he is much more pronounced than I am. The difference may be that we were raised this way and she simply would not have tolerated anything else. Period. Our room definitely would have been bare and stayed that way had we acted like this, but I can tell you right now we would not have because she would have shut that down immiedately.

We comprehended just fine. We both went on to college, careers and marriages. So, I guess we did all right with the iron fist of Mom. And "we" don't like to be referred to as "they." Please do not speak for us. We are more than capable of speaking for ourselves.

Excuse me! Sorry for living!

BTW, "THEY" also includes myself, and my son, and I am pretty darn sure, at least 3 other family members I can think of. I have a cousin who nearly killed himself because of an "iron fisted" father, I knew a boy who did. And "I" have felt suicidal when my mother would not give me any slack at all, I was in trouble for EVERY little thing I did wrong. So, that is part of "they" too.

I am willing to agree to disagree, maybe the difference is you are different people, you are a different family, and you where all raised in an iron fisted family from day one. But I know that it is not a one size fits all solution, and I know that if you turn on a 17 year old with emotional problems, including a DX for Bi Polar (even if it is questionable, he is highly emotionally unstable) and change the rules this late in the game, you very well may just break him in two, or cause him to snap, not cow down to the "rules".

I agree that disapline has to be firm and consistant. All children including Aspies need that. But the level that your family take it to, can be a nightmare for many Aspies, that is, if they are anything at all like the Aspies in MY family.

Good night.