How to teach child to point

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Hi everyone. My son is not diagnosed yet, we are waiting for appointment, but he has a lot of thing pointing to Autism. He is 2.5 yo and still trying to grasp concept of pointing. I am not sure he understands - because he can show me his dad, tree, leave (not with his finger) but when he wants something, he only scream, o try to reach the thing, rather then ask me to give it to him or point at it. Though on some rare occasions he shows thing with his hand, but that object needs to be close to him.
I tried different ways in how to explain to him and teach him to show things, rather bringing it to me, or dragging me to it. Sometimes it seems he finally gets it, but than he still clueless...
Do you have any advise ?

i would model for him, if he wants cookies and is dragging you there screaming, I would point to them, and say COOKIES! And do hand over hand to make him point. Do this every time. Dont give until he points, even if its only hand over hand pointing. He will get it!

There are really three types of pointing and children with ASD develop these differently than NT children.

Referential pointing - this is pointing to name or identify an object. It includes absolutely no joint interaction with another human and often occurs the same whether alone or with someone. (one study - I can't find the source now - found that young children - I believe they were 3 to 6, but I am not sure - anyway 90% of ASD kiddos and 100% of nonASD kiddos used this kind of pointing)

Protoimperative pointing - point to gain an object, this includes one way joint interaction. Often children with ASD will modify this to move someone's hand to the object or need to touch the object they are pointing at.

Protodeclarative pointing - point to share an interest "look at that" - this requires two-way joint interaction, it means pointing at an object, then looking to see if the person you want to show is looking at the object you are pointing at or responds. Further development of this means that when another uses protodeclarative pointing, you can follow their point and see what they are pointing at. It means if they look at an object without a point, you can follow the eye-gaze and determine what they are looking at. This is the most difficult for ASD kiddos and often occurs much later in life, while nonASD kiddos can follow eye-gaze as a baby (look at a baby, then look to the right of the baby (or the ceiling) with a surprised face, and many babies will turn to see what you are looking at).

The only support I have to offer now is to use small objects to represent large objects, so hand over hand touch the toy car and say "car" before getting in the real car, touch the toy cup and say "cup" and then give the real cup. This can transition later to picture representation, then finally word representations. Also you may use prompting words like ... take the child's hand and touch the object they are getting and say "I want" (pause) "juice" then let them take the juice cup. After time, they should start filling in the pause with the wanted item - this works even when they have limited verbal skills.

I don't know for sure, but I bet there has to be something interractive on the ipad that would work for this.

Cats lack a particular degree of theory of mind. For example, my cat will scratch the floor after using the litter box, rather than the litter, and he will scratch at his bag even if he has food on his plate, because he does not understand he can eat the food without seeing me scoop it on to the plate (this does not apply to bits of things he finds on the kitchen floor).

Cats also don't inherently understand the concept of pointing. Dogs, great apes, dolphins, and most humans, will naturally look where a person points to. Cats will look at the finger that is pointing, and then sniff it.

One day I decided to see if my cat was capable of learning this concept. This was somewhat difficult as I had to drop the food without him realizing I had done so. After the food was on the ground I would point at it, and predictably he would sniff my finger. However as he moved in to sniff my finger I would move it closer to the food on the ground. Each time I did this I stop farther and farther from the food. Eventually we got to a point where he understood to look where I was pointing, and I could repeat this result multiple times.

A few days later, however, he had forgotten again and I had to re-teach him. I imagine if this were something I did on a regular basis he would eventually always understand to look where I'm pointing.

With your son I would try a similar approach with a lot of repetition.

Hello lyrute, my son was not pointing when he had your son's age (now he's 4.5)
I taught him using ABA. I'll try to explain the tecnique. Hold in your hands two objects. One of two objects must be something your boy likes. Say "What do you want?". He will try to reach the object and you will shape his hand like pointing. Then you will name the object and show to appreciate his trial and immediately give him the object.
He will learn to point to obtain the object. Show ad increased appreciation whe he will give a correct answer.
Once he learns to point in this situation, you will place objects more and more distant and not in your hands.
Forgive my english, I'm foreigner (italian)

Thank you very much for your sugestions. I like different approaches you described, but I allready know that will be difficult task, because if I will show him two objects from close range, he will just try to grab it and if I will not let him, he will start major meltdown - screeming and fighting for it. Though I am ready for challenge and I will work with him a lot. Yesterday was one of those days, when I felt depressed and sad - my child still doesn't understand a lot what I tell him, he forgets what he knew few days ago.

When did your children start to understand more language and communicate?

Well that's a classic autism trait.
My son slowly began to understand when he was 3,5. Their understanding gets better with age, but you can help them with receptive language trainig. You will notice it because they will decrease echolalia when it's getting better. I asked how this feels to WP people and they told me it's overwhelming for them to listen to complex sentences, so first of all use 2 or 3 words sentences, he will understand better.
Whe I had this informations, I started to teach him nouns and short sentences, then verbs. Some children will find easier to understand short sentences and some nouns. Short sentences are instructions like "Stand up", "clap", etc.
Initially I spoke very slowly because he really struggled processing sounds and I asked a single item, later I asked more mixed items.
If you use an ABA technique, you will masterize every single word first in a mass trial (masterized when child suceeds 3 trials in a row) and then mixing it with 2 other items (9 of 10 correct answers in a row)
When you feel depressed, think that you are doing your best to help him and that you are not alone. Other parents like me can understand you.
Welcome on WP

Thank you Claudia - I appreciate your support and I am so happy I found this community. My mom still thinks I am imagining things, but even when my son was 1 year old, I knew something is different about him. I love him so much and I will do anything, everything is needed. Still I know that you will understand that sometimes it is very sad and you feel desperate. My son is so beautiful and he is smart, I can see that in his eyes and he just doesn't see world as I see it. Therefore he loves me and he shows me that in different ways that are special just for us. The only thing I still to overcome is other moms who enjoy they children who can talk, point, dance.... they show love with ease. Sometimes they complain about their perfect children and I think, if you knew you would be happy ... But anyway I am realy happy that I found this forum and I can relate to other parents and share the experience and knowledge.
Claudia, have you tried any biomeds>

No and I'm not an expert. Biomeds should address gut issues, that's a common comorbidity that fortunately I'm not experiencing.

Huh? For years I heard that is was incredibly rude to point.

Hello, I'm mainly responding because I was you just a few years ago. My son didn't start to point until he was well after three, after trying the picture thing PECS I believe and sign language, which he never got. What I did was start very small, with something he wanted or got on a daily basis, no choices, just the one thing. I instinctively knew what he wanted and would usually get it so wasn't helping. When he wanted it I would take him to the object where it was, (usually some kind of treat to be perfectly honest and had a baby gate for the kitchen so had to carry him over) then I would point to what it was he wanted and he would yell/scream/make some type of noise for it but wouldn't point. I would then take his hand and with his whole hand, not a finger, 'point' to the object and say "This is what I want mommy." Since his hand was on it and sometimes he would pay attention I'd then give him praise for pointing and that would distract him from his thoughts to help him connect with what was going on, and then of course what it was he wanted. It was very difficult at first, but over time as he was able to grasp each thing I'd add another. I was nowhere near the best or even that consistent because a lot of other things were going on and I was dealing with a pretty deep depression, but he still managed to 'get' it over time. I know every child is different, but early intervention is definitely something I agree with, before things get more rigid and hard to change.

He also had a speech therapist that didn't mesh with him and after six months I called it quits and found a MUCH better therapist that treated him like a person, not a problem and that has helped as well. But even they told me that I will do the most work because he's my son and their job is to help me and offer suggestions I may not have thought of.

His first word was 'da' at a little after 4, and the more I worked with him the faster he seemed to learn things. He is 6 now and can talk in incomplete sentences. Just last year he told me for the first time how he felt. He screwed up his face, said "I'm angry" and then went in the room slamming the door. I was FLOORED!! I was so excited that he told me how he felt that I almost didn't address why he was angry! I told everybody! lol

Also, I got him a Nabi at 3 because everyone talked about how technology helped kids with autism. (I must also say, it took me almost two years to fully accept his diagnosis while I was explaining to family who didn't believe me what was going on and getting him whatever help they initially said he needed because I had no idea but knew that he wasn't developing normally like his cousins.) In a month, from my tireless efforts proving fruitless trying to help him, he learned his entire alphabet, phonetic sounds, vowels, basic shapes and colors and numbers 1-20, even being able to recognize this stuff out of order. I believe it was because of the engaging songs and that he could repeat them as much as he wanted and were always upbeat. I will warn you, we went through 3 from his throwing them, and another few from malfunction, but we got a warranty so it wasn't so bad. Plus they upgraded their design for them and there is a ton of other choices if you choose to try it.

I just want you to know that you are not alone in your struggles. Even though I'm not there, I was before. I was caught up in endless tests, experts, doctor's visits and even a geneticist, (who by the way said there is no biological reason why he has autism, but since he shares so many things that I have I do wonder about that.) and it was so overwhelming. We went to the doctor, spent a few minutes, got a yep he has classic autism, handed a stack of paperwork (which I read every single page) and an unknown future, but no one to tell me that I wasn't alone, that he would be ok, that he's still his totally and completely awesome self and autism doesn't define him, it just means things will be different. My husband was not even help as he refused to believe it at all for three years afterward, I had no support.

Thanks for being brave enough to reach out for help, I wasn't.

I had the opposite problem, lol: how to teach adults to understand pointing. I pointed at objects almost intuitively. But adults never understood me when I did that. For instance, I was sick in bed, and called over my sister. I wanted to ask her to bring me a stacking pyramid toy, that was sitting on top of a radiator on the opposite end of the room.
So I said: "Can I please have my pyramid? It's over there."
"Where's over there?"
"It's right there." (pointing)
"Where's right there?"
"Right there!! !" (screaming, crying)
It took me many times to explain what I wanted, even though I was pointing right at that stupid pyramid. So I had to rely on an aspie's classic trick to get myself understood: having a meltdown. (I'm being astute here. ) As opposed actually pointing, which I already knew.

This has happened many times with the people in my life, but mainly adults. Kids my age usually tried to follow where my finger was directed, although oftentimes incorrectly. So if anything, this made me distrustful of adults. Ironically, as an adult, I had a flirty interaction with a woman on a cruise, that involved her grabbing my hand to point at another ship at see.

As a toddler, I held my hands out at something I wanted, I banged on doors or fridges for food, I pulled my mom or dad's hand or pushed them to a spot I wanted them to be, if I wanted to be somewhere, I stood by the doorway. I would think this was all non verbal communication that autistic children are supposed to lack because of lack of non verbal communication and lack of use of gestures. My parents understood me but other adults didn't. According to my mom I had my own way of communicating. I also made grunting noises for attention. I also pointed and went "Dah" when I would hear something. Wouldn't that be joint attention?

I would say the first step is teaching the kid how to speak first. But this is an old thread anyway so this part is moot but still useful information for others who want to teach their kids non verbal skills.

And funny Aspie1 that people would have issues with what you were pointing at because I read it was autistic people who have issues with seeing what someone is pointing at and they aren't able to figure out what the person is pointing at. But you were telling them what you were pointing at and they couldn't see it and look at the direction you were pointing?

He's not even 3 years old yet so maybe it's simply beyond his understanding, or it's beyond his ability to remember to point instead every time he wants something. Just doesn't particularly sound like an autism thing to me, more of a thing that I imagine he will learn with time and maturity.

I thought there was something fishy about it, considering that my family is NT. My explanation for it all was that they were "teaching me the value of patience and/or using my words by pretending not to understand me when I pointed". Or that it was their way of refusing to give me something, like cookies sitting of top of the refrigerator, or a colorful bottle of expensive hairspray on high shelf, to use as a pretend sword; they'd act like the cookies or the bottle don't exist. (Or just maybe, actually not see it, but I doubt it.)

I guess it makes some sense. But being only 5 at the time, I ended up relying on meltdowns to get my point across. It also gave me trust issues, that took me decades to grow out of. After all, like I said, barring nearsightedness, an adult not seeing what I'm pointing at, when the object is right there, just has to be them pretending. But when kids my age "misunderstood" me like that, I still got frustrated but assumed they were telling the truth.