Any advice for my 6 year old's anger?

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Hi everyone--I recently found out that my 6 year old boy has Asperger's. In many ways I'd say he's pretty 'mild', but disciplining him is definitely a challenge. He talks back like crazy and gets so angry and frustrated when I have to remind him--every day--to either do his morning chores (bathroom, brush teeth, getting dressed, etc) or his nightly chores (basically, same!), homework, whatever...but of course if I didn't remind him those things wouldn't get done! He doesn't seem to ever understand that if he just behaves 'nicely'--without talking back, or whatever--that everything would be so much better. I tell him being frustrated and feeling angry sometimes is okay and normal, he just needs to figure out a way to think or act it out that isn't harmful to others. (or, get himself in more trouble) The problem is I have NO idea what to suggest to him. The regular 'time outs', taking things away for a short time, not doing fun things because of behavior never seem to work and if they do, the result is very short lived. I feel like I'm up against a brick wall, and it's to the point where I dread telling him anything he needs to do because I know it will be a battle.

What's really heart breaking is often he'll get upset because he can't seem to help himself. He's said before that he really WANTS to behave well, he just doesn't know how.

Does anyone else have experience with this, and some good advice? What can we suggest him to do with his feelings, and what is the best way for us to react and deal with it? Thanks so much. I'm so glad I've stumbled upon this web site, you all seem to be so helpful and a great community.

Welcome to WP.

I too think this site is helpful.

I do know what you are going through. We are going through the same thing right now with our 8 yr old son. He isn't dx yet, but we are seeing a dr who is working on it.

One of the things you can try if you haven't all ready is have short term goals. Maybe, 10 min. of extra time once everything is completed of his favorite activity. But that way he is receiving rewards that are pleasing to him and he is getting the simple chores done. But make sure he knows that if he completes them w/out the meltdowns, that he gets the reward. One thing I have learned recently is that things are black & white. When you are explaining how this is going to work, let him know that these are the rules, and if he doesn't complete them he doesn't receive the reward. You might also try adding in extra special rewards for so many days (consecutive or not) of 10 min. rewards. If he likes the children's museum or the science museum you could add something special like that. Does he like Camp Snoopy, or going to Lego Land? But if you give him the opportunity to earn special rewards along immediate rewards that might help.

BTW: I am originally from MN.

Feel free to PM sometime.

Thanks for the welcome and the reply! I do offer him little 'rewards'...usually it's time to do something before school that he enjoys like watch a little PBS or have time to 'spin his coins'.....it's one of those things that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But usually I follow his lead, as in, he'll say he wants to do one of those things and then I tell him if he does his stuff without fuss than he can. Maybe I need to suggest that myself more often.

We did make a chart for him, doing his things each day (without fuss!) earned him a sticker. Once he got so many stickers, we could do the reward of his choice. Funny you should mention the Science Museum, that was his first reward! The second chart we upped the sticker requirement but he lost interest. (I have to say I'm not all that disappointed...that reward was Chuck E Cheese...! !) We've also tried a picture chart so he can just look at himself doing his various things happily...but that doesn't seem to help either.

I'm sorry you are going through something similar. We're at the point where our son just got diagnosed through a psychiatrist--solely because we wanted it, not because it was suggested by anyone--and now we're seeing if and what he qualifies for in the special ed stuff at school. It's tough, it seems like through that school stuff is covered, and some help in the friendship/social stuff, but no help for the parents at home dealing with this kind of day-to-day stuff.

Were born here in MN?

Suz, you have to remember that a 6 year old with AS is emotionally about 3. Just keep encouraging him and perhaps up the reward, make up a different kind of chart. And don't punish him. That is really what is causing his anger. Instead talk to him about how his talking back makes everything harder, about how it makes Mom feel sad and that you want to be happy. It makes you happy when he does his (whatever) without talking back. Tell him talking back is rude and can make teachers and other adults angry.

I have faced similar issues with my 10-year-old son, so I know what you are going through. Additionally, my son is also "mild", but he also has some anger issues that he needs to deal with. We have used the "chart", but pretty much with the same results you've experienced.

There are several things I've done which have helped First, changing the way I speak to him has made a difference. I make sure I know before I ask him whether or not he has done something, so I don't ask him questions that I know I am going to get a "no" on. I think it is really important to focus on what he has done, rather than what he hasn't done, so instead, I ask him how he is doing with, for example, getting dressed. If he hasn't started, which is often the case, then it is a reminder to do it, without pointing out to him that it is not done, (which is frustrating to him). I also watch my tone of voice, and choose my words carefully. I use a "sweet" tone with him when I want him to do something, and I put a lot of encouragement into the way I speak. I know that sounds a little crazy, but it has worked tremendously. When he completes the task I want him to do, I praise him so that he gets immediate recognition for what he has done, not words of frustration over what he hasn't done. He seems to thrive on the positive attention, and has even begun to do simple things without me constantly "checking in" with him on his progress. Another thing I do is try to set him up for success by allowing extra time for him to get things done. For example, I get him up early to allow for "in-his-own-world" time, and I start getting him ready for bed earlier as well. I have just learned not to expect things to be done in "my time", but for them to be done in "his time". I just have to be patient with him. That is really the best I can do for him. Admitedly, there are times when these things are difficult for me to do, but when it comes right down to it, I am in a better position to change my own behavior to affect a change in him, than he is to affect a change in himself.

Hang in there, because the upshot is you will eventually be able to get him to do the things you need him to do without the drama -- he just needs you to help him help himself.

You bring up so many things in your post that I would love to talk more with you about, but I need to go get the munchkin down to bed. I will try to touch bases with you again. In the meantime, from one newbie to another, "welcome to the board"!



hopeful4ian

The last line of your post really sums up the major point, he is not doing this with mal intent or to upset people, he WANTS to behave well, he just doesn't know how. In these moments where you feel like you are butting heads with him, repeat that to yourself 5 or 6 or even 10 times while assessing the situation and considering your options.

The other thing is, determining why he is getting so angry and frustrated with reminders. Reminders for these things you mention are very normal for the aspie or even severly ADHD child, they are not exactly abnormal for a lot of perfectly normal NT 6 year old boys. It sounds to me like you are in a cycle with him that needs to be broken. What happens is, you remind him of something, and he gets his back up, thus talking back, blowing up or melting down. Now you are upset with his "reaction" and that is brought center stage, and he is put in a spot where he starts fighting to "justify" his behavior, with the whole situation spinning out of control with every step "making things worse". By this point, the original task or problem is not even on the radar anymore. So, how do we fix that?

It may come down to the way that you phrase things, or organizing things differently, or implimenting a reward system that helps guide him through these normal daily routines. Perhaps a sticker chart, or just a lot of praise when he "reports" that he has completed these simple things.

The other thing is, don't engage with the outbursts. You say "Time to brush your teeth" and he starts yelling and screaming or talking back, at this point, I would keep your response very detached. Perhaps ask him "Is that an appropreate way to talk to me" or state "I don't like it when you talk to me like that, you need to go brush your teeth now". You can't expect him to "relate" how his actions effect others, or understand how talking back or throwing tantrums "gets him into more trouble" because in the heat of the moment, he is completely irrational potentially boarderline histarical.

What you can do, is set up firm and unwavering rules and coach him on what is acceptable and what is not. There is going to be little "understanding" on his part, and lots of yelling and screaming at first. Stay focused on the main issue, not the spin offs or talking back, that is an escalation that has historically spun things off course from the real issue. Don't allow him to escalate things, set clear expectations. So, when you tell him to "brush his teeth" and he gets biligerant, simply hold your ground. Eventually, even if it takes hours, he will brush his teeth because he has no other options. Do not allow his actions to spin or deflect the situation to something else. He yells, tell him he is acting inapropreately, all you have asked him to do is brush his teeth. He hurls some insults or comes up with excuses, state this is non negotiable, the teeth are going to come before anything else does. He moans kicks, screams cries. Send him to his room, and tell him he can come out when he is ready to brush his teeth. Don't make it about his behavior, don't make it a big deal, that is a deflection of the real issue, which is doing what he is told when asked. What it will show him in time, is that mom is calm and collected, there are few "negatives" to getting up and doing what is asked, however mom is serious, compliance is the only real option. Most importantly though, it breaks the cycle of escalations, and the pattern of being asked to do something simple causing an anxiety attack.

He does not understand that things get ugly as a result of his behavior, all he knows is that when mom starts asking him to do things, it usually means that some fight is about to break out, he does not connect the two! So, the only option is to not fight. However, that does not mean that he "gets his way" either. Eventually he will come to realize that mom asking him to do something does not mean a fight is eminant, but it does mean that he is expected to perform the task, there are little other options.

he's a kid. lighten up.

and IMHO 6 y.o.'s shouldn't be doing homework. Reading yes, homework no.

edit - thanks for showing me up to be an uncaring bastard, ticker

Have you looked into diet? A lot of people poo poo the idea that food addatives affect behaviour, but it did my kids.

And I still think a 6 y.o. shouldn't be doing homework. Tell the school no, but encourage reading

Last edited by BazzaMcKenzie on 04 May 2007, 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

If your sons behave in such a manner then they are not "mild". I am mildy Aspergers and never behaved like in front of my parents. What AS kids need is discipline and structure. Don't say one thing then do another. If you need them to take out the trash don't tell them then finally give in and do it yourself while they go sit in front of the tv or whatever their favorite past time is. You will be doing yourself a favor by stopping the back talk and bad behavior NOW or else they were be impossible to deal with by time they hit teens and adulthood. Aspies have a hard time with housework so they need to learn young the proper way to take care of themselves since most likely they will be single their entire adult lives.

Another thing- a lot of people like to blame bad behavior on Aspergers but when they are extremely impossible to deal with you need to be on the lookout for a comorbid conditions like Bipolar. Aspergers people generally are quiet and eager to please.

My 7 year old has Asperger's and has started weekly sessions with a psychologist at an Asperger's specialist clinic. I also have an 8 year old son who we strongly suspect has Asperger's (he has a paediatrician appointment in 3 weeks.)

The psychologist old me I will need to be his Executive Secretary for the next few years because of his poor organisation skills. So acceptance will help reduce your frustration. My 3.5 year old son (NT) is more organised than both his big brothers. In the morning it's my 3.5 year old who dresses himself, gets his own breakfast, and brushes his teeth without any prompting. It's the 7 and 8 year old they need constant reminders.

However, it doesn't mean you do it all for him.

Have you tried taking photos of him doing whatever needs to be done - brushing teeth, getting dressed etc

Then you can put the photos on the wall of his bedroom and have him tick them off as he does them.

Arguing back with a kid with Asperger's is waste of time and energy. Just calmly repeat what you want him to do.


Make sure you're getting enough time for yourself doing actvities you enjoy.

Good luck!

Smelena

Wow, thanks everyone for all of your replies. I can see I'm in good company here.

It's good to be reminded that my son is emotionally 3, not 6. Hopeful, your advice seems helpful ...and I'd love to hear what else is on your mind! I do stay calm and I don't ever raise my voice at him, and I don't back down on things. We are very much a 'rules' family and have a consistant schedule. My husband and I have always thought this is a comfort to both of our kids. But it gets tiring and hard to have insults thrown at me when I'm asking my son to do simple things every single day. It's like I think, "Here we go..." whenever I get up in the morning. Once he's out the door, he's happy and fine. But I do like the idea of asking him how much he's done instead of what he hasn't done.

Bazza, I could be wrong here, but I'm gathering that you're thinking I am an overbearing Mom? I honestly don't think it's too much for me to expect a 6 year old to learn to be polite. I certainly don't expect him to be perfect! I'm his Mom, I know he loves me and his lashing out has nothing to do with that. But he can't be talking like that to his teachers, his friends, his boss someday...it's my job to teach him that. (of course, maybe he saves those little gems for me...the only 'trouble' he seems to have at school is just staying focused!) And I do agree with you that kids are overworked these days and Kindergartners shouldn't have homework...but sadly, that's school now. Kindergarten has moved on from playdoh and taking naps on a mat. Homework is not difficult for him to do--in fact, it's very easy--he just doesn't want to do it because it's expected of him and not on his own terms. (like a cat! ) I would never force him to do something--especially homework!--if it really caused him anxiety or upset, it's just a battle of wills with him. In fact, when he was 3 we tried to go on an airplane and he was SO upset--like out of this world anxiety-ridden--we made them open the door to let us out!! ! We lost over $800 dollars that day, but I would have lost a million dollars to make my baby feel safe. I just wanted to tell you that so you could get an idea that I am not by any means overbearing and too expectant of my child!

I do make sure to tell him whenever he's been 'easy' about something, not only telling him how happy it makes me but also trying to make him see how much happier HE feels when everything goes smoothly. What's hard is he really seems to get it at that time, and then the next time I ask him to do something we're back to square one. It feels like it's something he'll never learn. We have done the photo chart, but that doesn't seem to help.

Overall he is the sweetest boy ever. Every morning we start the day with a snuggle in my bed. I look around at school and am so thankful that he's mine--generally I'd say he's often more polite than a lot of the other boys and I love his soft-spoken demeanor. I could go on all day about this --as it is, this post is quite long!--but of course in my questioning for advice I couldn't type everything I would like to say about him or the situation. I suppose bipolar is always a thing to look at, but I don't mean to apply that he flies into a rage. It's just the constant pushing back whenever there is an expectation, and then of course the talking back. I blame a lot of that on Calvin and Hobbes...the curse of an early-reading child when he is exposed to his older sister's reading material! Calvin is not a good role model!

Thanks again everyone for taking time out to reply!

Oh, Bazza, can you tell me more about the diet thing? I asked my ped about it but he seemed to think it's not usually something that changes much. Of course I'm open to anything and am the first to think that things are different depending on each and every child. Are you talking about just serving more 'whole' foods? Or cutting back on sugar? Thanks...

Suz,

Just had a thought ... we have a friend whose child has Asperger's, but also has Tourette Syndrome - something I don't know much about, but I believe (I'm sticking myself out here) it has something to with angry outbursts, and (again I am sticking my neck out here) is also on the ASD spectrum. I've also read other posts on the board about children who also have oppositional-defiant disorder in addition to AS. Have you looked into these possibilities to, at the very least, eliminate them as possible causes for his angry outbursts and the things he says to you? I hope I'm not alarming you; I'm trying to be helpful because it sounds like you have your hands full with him. If these are the source of his problem, I know there are specific things you can do and/or medications (if you are comfortable with that) which could make the situation better.

Just a thought...

hopeful4ian

Thanks, Hopeful...no, I haven't thought about either of those. All of this is so new to us, we're just starting the journey....! Of course in thinking of Tourette's all I can think about is someone yelling out obscenities against their will (thanks to Hollywood..!) and my first thought would be that he doesn't have it. But apparantely there must be more to it than that. The defiant disorder, that definitely rings a bell. How does one find out about these kinds of things?? I suppose just reading on the internet? Unfortunately the psychiatrist who did our assessment was not helpful at all...in our hour meeting with him to get the diagnosis (he had a previous meeting with all of us, and then a one-on-one with my son) he spent the first 50 minutes explaining the tests, dropped the AS bomb diagnosis on us in the last 10 minutes and told us he'd be mailing us some information. He was literally walking us out the door as we were stammering, trying to ask questions. His suggestions in the paperwork were reading a Tony Attwood book (which I am doing--I have to FORCE myself to read some every night it's so depressing!), and get him assessed at school, which we are in the process of doing.

So I've been trying to read books, get on the internet to learn what I can. How does one know when they've come to a point to get counseling? My peditrician was very much of the 'wait and see' with this whole thing, as in waiting until he was in 1st or 2nd grade to look into anything--obviously some of this stuff is also typical 6 year old boy behavior, and as I said, a lot of the AS stuff with him is very mild. (although after reading the replies here, it sounds like we're all wrong in that assumption!) We just took it upon ourselves to get him assessed because of that nagging feeling we've always had that he's 'just a bit different' from most kids his age. Obviously the doc was wrong in that area and I'm so glad I didn't take his advice! He is a very good doctor, though, and I do like his advice about meds--we have touched on that. Basically he's applying the wait and see approach to that as well--mainly we talked about meds for my son's focusing problems and the doc's question of "how much focusing does he need to do in Kindergarten?!" rang true with me. Again, a lot of that stuff could be his age. It could be a whole different ball game, though, if the meds were more for anger management. hmmm.

It's hard to know where to even ask questions, or who to ask, like if those things you mentioned ARE something we need to look into. When was your son diagnosed? Did you say you are doing counseling? (sorry, it's hard to remember who said what.) Right now our plan is to wait and see what the school says he qualifies for help-wise, and then when I find that out I'm also going to call this woman who is part of an RDI program. Have you heard of that? It's terrible, I can't even remember what RDI stands for right now...! But my friend has a boy who's 5 and has high-functioning autism, he was diagnosed about a year and a half ago. She's been doing this RDI thing and can not say enough good things about it. It's basically a whole-life sort of therapy, dealing with the way you talk to your child, do things...you incorporate it into everything you do. So I guess we'll look into that, see what that's all about. Then from there either work with that, or maybe counseling? Don't know. Then there is the whole question of public verses private school....but that's a whole other topic we can get into another time...

You're sweet to worry about freaking me out--but I'm already freaked. Any information I can get is good information. Do you have any other kids? Take care---

It sounds to me like the AS is not "mild" rather you blame poor behavior on a lot of his "aspie ways". This is not a personal attack, I have been there and done that, and even still at times find it very difficult to diferentiate what is "him being a brat or out of line" with what is him having AS.

I think that the insults need to be dealt with, but as I said, you are definately in a cycle and I think you are relying to much on him making an emotional breakthrough with him. If he says or does something that is inappropreate, make sure it does not attract from the issue. Calmly remind him that is not an acceptable thing to do or say, but past that, move on, don't let the drama escalate. (sometimes easier said then done, but if you get it right 80% of the time, then you are getting on the right track at least!) It sounds like you are both waking up with your backs up against a wall waiting for the shoe to drop.

I also agree you need to be your sons executive assistant, With my son at 12, I make sure all his books are organized for him, becuase he is just "incapable" of it. That said he needs to "help" and is taking on more and more all the time, particularly when he is not "stressed". Last night though I did get upset with him because I asked him to place some paper in his binder, which he did, without putting it in the rings OR zipping up the binder, so a few hours later I went to move the binder, and BAM papers EVERYWHERE! I made him clean him up and told him it was not "acceptable" and asked him what he should have done instead. *sigh*. He is learning though, and that is good.

Do you lay out his clothes and pack up his bag the night before? At 6 He may even need help with things like brushing his teeth, not so much the "brushing" but all the "getting organized" and performing the task. I would suggest instead of "asking" if he brushed his teeth, telling him "ok, it is time to go brush our teeth now." Do your teeth at the same time, get his tooth brush ready, hand it to him, afterwards wash it off (or ask him too) and tell him where to place it before he leaves in a friendly "helpful" manner. Praise him for doing a "good job" when you are done and then direct him to the next step in getting ready.

I am not sure why you find the Tony Attwood depressing, I have heard a lot about him and most people seem to find him comforting, however I think that it comes as a shock to a lot of parents with realizing that infact, their child does have a "disability" that is not going to go away.

I would recommend councelling now, however more for yourself then for your son at this point. Or you can just hang out here until you get it all figured out! Try to focus on the positives and not on what is wrong, I think that almost all parents find that for all the problems As can cause initailly, it usually has a postive side too. With the right help, your son will lead a very fulfilling and successful life.

I really feel for you and your son. The fact that you have a diagnosis at 6 is one thing in your favour. Quite a few are older and the early intervention is no longer helpful.
I have a couple of books that I found extremely helpful in dealing with my sons. The first, "Helping a Child With Nonverbal Learning Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome: A Parent's Guide" By Kathryn Stewart, PH.D. was the most helpful. She is the leading founder of the Orion Academy, the first college prep high school for students with NLD or Asperger's. I took the information that I felt was useful to Tanner and used it to deal with the school and with Tanner's behaviour. He is 13 so there are really no interventions for children his age.
The second book, "Parenting Your Asperger Child" by Alan Sohn, Ed.D., and Cathy Grayson, M.A.
was also good but a little harder to read. The ideas are excellent and I have used many of them. They all worked. I found that they put way to much emphasis on the disability aspect so I ignored those parts and used what made sense. I think that is what you have to do with any information because your child is unique.

I also found that there is very good information on the Nonverbal Learning Disorder sights. Asperger's and NLD have an overlap so much of the info is pertinent to both. Good internet sights are nldontheweb.org (great information on Advocacy and just about everything else), nldonline.com and ldonline.org (learning disabilities and special needs)

I used a lot of the information for Tanner's IEP. I stipulated that he gets no homework because it takes him until bedtime to wind down at home after school. He also has a 4 day school week with Friday off. He still does some school work but it takes some of the social and sensory overload off of him. He is so tired by Thursday evening.

Good luck to you . You will find what works for your child.

one of the things that we have done that has helped (some) with my son, also 6 is to get the "Help me be good" books. He is a good reader and he loves the books and sometimes when he is acting up we may repeat lines to him from the book(s) or have him read one. Remember though, once he is upset and has already lost control, he does not understand your words anymore and it is just noise at that point! These books are just like social stories that are geared specifically towards younger kids. You can always find these books on ebay, we were able to get the whole set at once.