Endless frustration!!

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My partners daughter ( very nearly 11) has been recently dx'd with ASD/ Aspergers. We've explained her dx to her as much as she can take in, and even at this early stage she seems to be playing on it to get away with certain behaviour she KNOWS is unacceptable. She's been told that it is NOT an excuse for bad behaviour, she wasn't allowed to be a brat before and she's not allowed to be a brat now. Obviously we try to be flexible and understand her way with things where it isn't a massive issue but there are some things there can be no compromise on and she just isn't getting the message. Personal hygiene is one area we're having real problems with right now. We've tried explaining to her how important it is, especially as she gets older but it's not working. She has to be TOLD to brush her hair, brush her teeth, wash etc. And even when she's been told to do it she'll lie and say she has when we know damn well she hasn't. As far as she's concerned the only purpose for a bath is to play, and she'll take the most ridiculous things in the bath to play with. Last week it was the hamsters treat bar which disolved into the most disgusting mess I've ever seen in my life! She was dirtier when she got out of the bath than when she got in it. Also she's been told endless times about wasting bottles of shampoo, conditioner etc just by playing with it. It makes very pretty patterns round the bath but never touches her hair! At nearly 11 it's hardly reasonable to have to supervise bathroom activities but it seems there's no other way. This is a real worry right now because she's going away with the school for a few days later this month. It'll be her first time away from home other than with family and we just KNOW she's not going to wash or brush her teeth for 4 days. Other kids soon pick up on things like that and she'll find it even harder to make friends than she already is. There's also a problem with bed wetting, she can be dry for ages then suddenly it'll happen several nights a week. it's happened several times in the last 2 weeks which again is a worry when she's due to be going away. It's always been made clear to her that she doesn't get in trouble for wetting the bed, as long as she tells someone straight away so we can get her bedding washed. However there have been a few occasions when she's not told anyone and she'll happily sleep in a stinking bed for 2 or 3 nights until it gets discovered. This isn't going to endear her to her class mates if it happens while she's away. Last week she also wet herself in a playground when we went out for the day, there was no need for it, there were toilets nearby, she just couldn't be bothered to go. This is obviouly an important area to get the message through, but we're banging heads on the wall trying to get anywhere.
Any suggestions please??

I disagree. My son is 12 and still needs some support with this stuff. I have been told by others here it is normal. We have accepted it, and are taking a more mild approach with it all. We remind him in a more directional way like "lets go brush your teeth now as you only have 10 more minutes before school". Or "You need to wash your hands before you eat". Or "you just came out of the bathroom, you need to wash you hands, I did not hear you". I have taken the "confrontation" out of the reminders, the point is to prompt or remind, not to scold or shame. My son actually seems to be doing better with a more positive approach.

It seems to have taken the "anxiety" out of self care for him, thinking about brushing his teeth does not send him into a panic attack anymore, and he is actually starting to remember more often on his own accord or need less follow up.

I usually ask first "have you ...." If he says no, I remind him. I follow up, and if it is undone, then I calmly escort him. As I said, I need to escort him less and less lately.

I also used to "run' his bath or adjust the water temp for a shower right up to last January when we got new taps for the bath that are much easier to manage. It isn't a big deal, but does make sure that the water is adjusted properly when it seemed a little beyond him.

If I had an 11 year old girl who wanted to play in the bath, I would let her play, (my son did until he was 10) Run the bath, set it up, put shampoos and other stuff out of the way so she can't absent mindedly dump them in. (I used to play with soap bottles up to grade 5 or so, I think it was a near "stim" for me. ) Then when she is nearly done, go in and help wash her hair and help her finish up. Week by week transfer the responsibility to her, have her do more and more, only stepping in when she needs help or is not doing something correctly. She will learn, and the patterns and routines will become more firmly set. If modesty is an issue, maybe get her a throw or wrap that she can wear in the tub or shower, made out of a lighter fabric, with a velcro or button to hold it shut under her armpit?

When my son was 10 /11 I would get a cloth, put soap on it, and hand it to him to "wash" his body with. He did not need me scrubbing, but it did help with getting him to actually do it, serving as a clear reminder and taking away any of the "challenge" in setting it up, like using too much soap. With teeth brushing I would still occasionally if he was having a bad day have to get his tooth brush "ready" for him and hand it to him.

Basically she needs to be sent a message, hygine is not a compromise, if she wants her privacy and to do it herself, then she needs to actually get it done!



Does the Teacher know about her Aspergers? You may want to see if the teacher has some input for this one, they may be able to provide a "reminder" to all the girls or even just your daughter in a descrete way. Usually when kids go away they have a bathing schedual or turn taking that the kids follow. Talk to the teacher about it they may be able to suggest something. Perhaps pick her up some Dental Gum? You would have to make the call if that is a good idea or not, she may just eat the whole pack on the way up! When my son went away for 2 days last February with the school I was a nervous wreak, he actually did really well and it was a whole bunch of his peers that got sent home early! I bought him some fancy shampoos (man sented not something that would appeal to your partners daughter! ) and some kids toothpaste. Maybe that would make her more likely to want to take care of these things freely, if she can't wait to try the new flavour of toothpaste or smell the shampoo? Of course you will want flavours or scents that she likes!

As for bed wetting while away, is it possible to get her a pullup like Goodnights for older kids? I don't know how big she is, but they make them up to 125 pounds. Then you could give her some tips on how to make it discrete. Afterall if she wets the bed at all, changing the sheets or not it is going to attract negative attention.

At home have you tried making a regular habbit of asking her if she wet the bed or not in the mornings? Does she "lie?" Or is it just that she does not volenteer information?

Last edited by EarthCalling on 08 May 2007, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

you have to let go of the idea that she's NT...............she's not...you will have to help her with things you think she should already be able to do, you'll have to expect some behaviors that are below her age~some might be far below her age. she is who she is. you're making a fuss about all the things she does wrong will not help her to want to do anything right

We have the same hygiene problems with our 11 year old son. We are constantly reminding him to use shampoo and body soap...brush your teeth...comb your hair...use deodorant...etc. We tried the approach Earth Calling suggested to no avail, so we decided to take a more direct approach. Everytime ds does not use soap and shampoo, we make him retake his shower. It's as simple as that. He knows he is suppose to suppose to do these things, but just "doesn't want to." We've gone around and around with him on why it is important, but he has decided he doesn't like soap. Most of the time one retake is all he needs to keep him on track for a while...if he is particularly onery sometimes it takes three times.

As for the bed wetting issue, she's probably embarrassed about it and that is why she doesn't say anything. This could be true even if you are gentle and accepting of this behavior. Our son still sometimes has accidents. I never chastise him. Sometimes I think it's happening because he is more stressed than usual. Also, he's a pretty deep sleeper (when he finally gets to sleep) and his body isn't good about waking him up to go to the bathroom. I recommend getting a mattress cover and limiting fluids after 7pm. Also, talk with her, maybe there is something keeping her from getting to the bathroom in time.

Bath time has had slow transitions here. When we thought he should be washing his hair on his own (before any notion of AS) we would get frustrated by the over use of shampoo. Seriously, about a bottle a week and his hair is very short. I came up w/the idea of putting his shampoo into a pump bottle (currently we use an old bottle from hand soap) and let him know he only needs 1 pump. This has helped him greatly. Also, he is afraid of head lice. So we let him know that if he don't wash his hair good he will get head lice. Since then great improvements w/hair washing.

For washing his body, he has done alot better using Johnson's bar soap w/scrubby on it for kids. This way he isn't trying to figure it out. It takes the complexity out of it. He knows we put soap on his washcloth, but that concept was too hard to grasp of how much.

We still are working on brushing the teeth good. We started using a toothbrush w/a timer. This way he knows how long to brush his teeth for. When we see a large amount of plaque we send him back to rebrush them (he really doesn't like that), and keep that up until they are brushed properly.

So she likes playing in the bathtub....and that is wrong why? Give her things that are ok to play w/my 4 yo likes to take different things in the tub. But, I let her know what will & what won't work good in the tub. That way she can pick but is picking things that wont break or do well in the tub. But give her boundries, and help her adjust.

Keep everything small steps. Big ones can be to overwhelming.

I didn't say it was wrong, maybe I just worded it badly but that certainly wasn't what I meant. She has loads of toys in the bathroom and it's never even been considered to take them away from her. The problem is that playing is ALL she does in the bath, and often she doesn't stick to her toys. It'll be anything that might just take her fancy at the time. The hamsters treat bar, a load of mud, sunflower seeds purloined from the parrots cage.... you name it. We just need to get it through to her that she needs to wash as well as play which is where the problem lies. Thanks for the replies, a few suggestions worth trying.

On the bed wetting issue, sometimes she will get up in the morning and straight away come and tell one of us that she's wet the bed. On a couple of occasions she's even stripped her bed herself and put it all in the washing machine before anyone else is up. She's always been praised for telling and giving us the chance to sort it out without a fuss. That's why it's so hard to understand when she DOESN'T tell and leaves it til it stinks. And since her bed wetting seems to come in episodes it's easy to forget to check every single morning. It does seem to be linked to when she gets upset about something, but often it's something really trivial that in her mind is a HUGE big deal. Although we understand that some things are a much bigger deal to her than to us, it's still not easy to offer solutions or stop her worrying. And the week after her school trip they do SATS at school which I suspect may be worrying her a bit though she hasn't said anything directly about it.

one thing you have to face: playing is probably the only way she will take a bath

designate toys that are okay for use in the bath (you probably shouldn't do the bar or the lump of mud)

I do all of these things, i think its just the way we aspies are, especially at the young teen age.

I wouldnt worry too much about these things through, its something that most aspies naturally grow out of.

Yeah, I'll bet she is stressed out about having to take her SATS. We have TAKS testing here in Texas, and DS is always stressed out about them. He is in resource classes due to some learning disabilities, so he is not required to take the regular test like the general ed students. He knows this, but he still gets stress out about it.



We do this, as well, and DS hates to rebrush them. However, when the plaque on his teeth is orange, it's just too nasty not to have him rebrush. At one point DS had a cavity on a baby tooth and we were given the option of having it filled or leaving it alone. However, if we left it alone there was a possibility that it may start to cause him pain before it was time for it to fall out. I remember thinking maybe if we have him go through the process of getting a filling, he will hate it so much he will be certain to brush all the time. Well, DH took DS to the dentist, and when I asked how it went he said, "It wasn't that bad." Ugh!

I really don't understand why it is so difficult for DS to take care of himself. These really are very simple tasks. I try to be understanding to some of it due to AS and ADHD, but sometimes I think he's darn right lazy and just doesn't want to do it. I really hope what Fraz_2006 has posted is true, and that DS grows out of this...sooner than later would be nice.

I almost wonder if on the mornings she does not tell you, she is not really all that aware of it. I know it seems hard to believe, but even I know I have been accused of ignoring some pretty god awful stuff in life and just been so tuned into something else I am not fully consious of the problem! I still think daily reminders and praise for when she does remember or even strip the bed are in order.

Just ask "Good morning, do you need to change your sheets today?"
"yes"
"Thank you for letting me know, did you strip the bed?"
"no"
Ok, if you have time please do that before you leave this morning, I would really appreciate it.

Or, "yes, I did strip the bed"
Thank you for that, I really appreciate it, I'll get them in the wash for you".

If you go a lot of days with "no, I did not wet the bed, or no I don't need to change the sheets", then just make a comment on that, something like "Gee your having a lot of dry nights lately, that is great".

As for her sometimes not telling you, I know when I was a kid / even teen I would stop communicating with my parents if I "THOUGHT" they even "MIGHT" be angry with me over what I did. It was not a rational thing, and even with things I knew normally did not upset them, if I knew they where stressed, or I had just had an agrument with them over something else, I would think "now is not the time" and I would be afraid. Another lady her posted how just the "smallest things" seem to prove huge barriers for her son, and I agree, I see it in my son, and in myself.

*Take Care*.

Spyder - I used to set up a water station at the kitchen sink for experimentating with things like seeds, mud and food items. We also had a sand box (tupperware box with a lid) for indoor play. Maybe if you designated a specific place for this, she wouldn't need to do it in the tub.

I have noticed too that toileting accidents happen at times of stress. See if you can figure out the source and help her through it. If you think of it as an intellectual challenge, getting to the bottom of the mystery, you remove some of the emotional stuff that bogs you down and makes it difficult to find a solution. Good luck!