Talking Back

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For parents who are NT:
How do you define talking back?

Being disrespectful I think

Can you be more specific?

After the fact, adults in charge can say, "that was disrespectful"...but if we can't define what *it* is, the child can never learn to avoid it.

From what I've learned:

- Further protests when a matter has been deemed concluded by the parent
- Talking 'out of turn'
- Answering rhetorical questions (this is something I always used to do and have to try hard to recognise them in context)
- 'Humorous' answers to serious questions

That's helpful.

I think answering rhetorical questions is a difficult one, I am sure I did that a lot to not knowing it wasn't a question to be answered and was only confused if I got in trouble for it.

Thank you! Though it is coming from the perspective of an AS person with no children, but they are my observations that seem to hold up against testing/memory.

You know--it's probably better. Perhaps many NTs wouldn't be able to describe it because they "just know". Perhaps someone who's had to painstakingly learn the rules would be a better person to articulate them.

(My son's teacher complains of him talking back--once even called me to tell me I had to come immediately pick him up from school. I heard the conversation went like this:

Teacher: put your calendar away

Kid: in my folder or in my bag?

Teacher: don't talk back to me!

*granted I am 100% certain that he probably did a lot more offensive things throughout the day and she was probably just mentally exhausted with him. ...but I cannot understand what he did wrong, so I can't understand how to help him remedy the problem. When the teacher called she was very upset and said multiple times how he *knew* better. I just kept saying okay until it was done and then found a way to get my kid ASAP.)

Given the detail we have, it seems the teacher's reaction is disproportionate unless accumulative (and even then, I'd argue unwarranted for the incident at hand) or lacking detail.

Emotional states seem to play a huge part even in the role of teacher so it could be that the lesson here is more about learning when a question is a question too far. Which can be really tricky due to the nuance involved.

It doesn't sound easy but I'm sure with practice your son can get to grips with it.

I am going to make some assumptions here that may or may not be true. I am guessing the teacher expects him to know where the calendar goes. Therefore, she assumes that he is doing this just to annoy her. The best response upon hearing this would be to tell her your son has "executive functioning issues and doesn't know where to put the calendar, unless he is specifically told, even if you think it is common sense."

Is this the same teacher that requested that your child should have an IEP? If so, it sounds like it might be a very good idea to let the person that you will deal with that understands autism know that it would be useful for the teacher to get access to resources on kids with autism.

She may very well have been exasperated by a lot of what she would consider annoying, unnecessary questions but she is going to have to learn that it is better for him to ask when he is confused or she will be mad at a whole other set of things, when he melts down out of confusion or puts important things in the wrong place.

Yes, it's the same teacher. He'll have her for the next 3 years.

Explaining executive functioning issues sounds good, even though I'm unlikely to do that...so I guess the IEP will be helpful once I can wrap my brain around it. In the moment and even later, I just didn't do much at home about it. (Typically if he is written up and I have to sign something for his behavior, I'll work with him on it. This time, I was just confused. I signed the form and returned it, but he didn't have anything further from us at home.)

I remember my 3rd grade teacher one time walking me to the office. I don't remember what she said, but how I remember it was that I hadn't done anything wrong per se, but she was just beyond her limit for handling me that day...so she brought me to the office so she wouldn't end up losing her temper over me unfairly. ...that's sort of how I felt about this situation with my son.

Do you have copies of all the paperwork they sent home this year for you to sign? Before your IEP meeting, you should go through it all to see exactly what your son's teacher's issues with your son are. Especially given that he will have this teacher for multiple years, it is very important that you understand the issues, so you can see where your son needs modifications/accommodations or the teacher needs education and resources for better dealing with your son.

No, but she does. And I remember.

He's been written up a total of 3 times (ever...and it was all this year, his 7th year at this school).

The first, he lost his temper and threw outdoor equipment in the general direction of other children. No one was hurt.

The second, he was holding scissors while emotionally over-reacting to his sister. No one was hurt.

And the talking back was the third.

For the first two, I did a lot of things at home to help him build skills to avoid those reactions again. They will, of course, happen again, but now he knows when he is angry he shouldn't hold anything. He also knows of places in the classroom where he can go and be while he is angry. He is also allowed to go to the office where there is a peace corner for self-calming purposes.

I'm also leaving my job soon, mostly for health reasons...but they relate to my son as well. I know I don't have enough left in me to be as good of a parent as I can be. Frankly, I struggle with the basics a lot. (My husband travels and is away most of the time and I have some pretty serious health issues.)

Next school year, I will be a stay at home parent.

I remember being young and being absolutely stimmied by the phrase "don't talk back." Adults talk to you and then they usually expect a response. But then there is the "don't talk back" rule. Are we supposed to respond to them or not? It didn't make any sense.

What they mean to say is do not disregaurd the differences in our social stature when you speak to me. Always speak with a tone reflective of my advanced position, relative to yours.

From an NT perspective, that sounds terrible. But if you think about it, it's the truth. If they had said that to me, I would at least have understood.

My sister in law uses the phrase "Don't be fresh." It is equally completely off as a phrase. Fresh? As in fruit? But fruit is good when its fresh and bad when its rotten. And clearly, from your tone, fresh is bad here. It doesn't make any sense.

That seems all-encompassing! Thank you!! (That helps *me* understand it...but I'm certain it will take longer to help my son understand. But, this helps. A lot.)

Thanks!!