Stepmom to possible aspie - help!

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Hello - I am a stepmom to a 16 year old stepdaughter (who I'll call SD16) who I believe has Asperger's. I've observed her for 4 years now and I have become more and more convinced as time has gone by. My husband agrees but he has never had her evaluated. I think this is because he didn't want her to be treated differently, he knew his ex-wife wouldn't support getting her evaluated and even if he managed to do so she would blame him since he has an uncle with autism. This woman is the type of person who would tell her daughter - I'm sorry you have autism because of your father! He can't bear to be blamed for yet another thing by her.

My husband has struggled with SD16 her entire life. She has always had social issues, ticks, hyper-sensitivity to the feel of clothing, taste/texture of foods, sounds, etc. She was bullied quite a bit through elementary and middle school. She has never been affectionate. She does not come across as loving or empathetic. If she is - she hides it well. She talks too loud, interrupts a lot and will want to go on and on and on about a topic she's interested in and wants no one else to add anything. She sees no reason why she shouldn't be able to say something like "I don't like this food you made. It's gross."

I came on the scene when she was 12 - already a hard age to come into a girl's life. She basically rejected me from the start and has never brought her walls down and shown acceptance. I feel she just tolerates me now.

She has a younger sister - SD13. She was 9 when I first met them. She's basically the total opposite. She accepted me from the beginning and has NOT ONCE gotten mad at me, shown frustration, or rejected me in any way. She's extremely loving, affectionate and empathetic. She makes elaborate hand-made cards for me with paragraphs about how awesome I am and how much she loves me lol I know that sounds over the top but I'm serious!

I treated both girls the exact same way from the start. I was respectful, kind, generous, supportive and encouraging. I never disciplined them in the beginning - I left that to their father. I didn't discipline either of them directly until years in. I've gotten 2 totally different reactions from these 2 girls who have the same parents and were raised in the same households. Yes, I know siblings can be very different from each other but this is extreme!

I've tried and tried to connect with SD16. I've drastically adjusted my approach with her since she seemed more irritated than pleased with my tendency to be nice, supportive and encouraging. I'm more laid-back like "hey what's up?" rather than "How are you!? It's so good to see you again!" She expresses no interest in receiving cards or gifts. I've bought her many things she's even asked for and most of the time she never uses them. They end up thrown in the bottom of her closet never to be seen again. When I tried calmly explaining to her that it hurts my feelings when I get her things she specifically asked for and she never uses them - she literally did not get it AT ALL. SD13 was even in the room with us and was looking at her and me like ????? - sorry I don't get my sister either! She did say one thing that was somewhat revealing. I said - do you understand that it makes me feel bad when you do this? and she said - "I don't think I even understand how I feel." Which I think is true!

I try to just work with how she is but I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. Her dad and I don't dare to ever ask her to do anything like pick up the trash that she threw on the floor or rinse her dish in the sink or not leave her disgusting plaque-encrusted retainer out on the kitchen table that she refuses to brush. That's another thing- she has no interest in taking care of her body. She would be content to eat chips, candy and ice cream all day everyday and sees no reason why this isn't ok. Her mother is even a doctor and she doesn't get it. I swear her mom has asperger's too. SD16 doesn't bathe, brush her teeth, brush her hair, or even change her underwear everyday! We've gone on week-long trips and I've checked her bag and she brings no extra underwear at all. Her dad talked to her mom about this and it was like talking to a brick wall. Her mother just kept making excuses for her. She said she would talk to her about these things but then later told my husband - well she brushes her teeth at MY house, etc. Like oh it must just be your fault that she's not doing these things at your house.

I'm to the point where I don't want to try anymore. She comes over, makes messes, doesn't help out, acts rude towards all of us, insults my cooking, interrupts constantly, acts b*tchy, makes no apologies and if we ever try talking to her about certain issues like expressing empathy she reacts to us as though we're the crazy ones. She doesn't see the need to do A, B or C therefore there must be no need to do A, B or C. It doesn't help that her mother doesn't see the need for these things either - or she's just so hellbent on making her daughter think SHE'S the awesome one because she never scolds her or tries to get her to improve upon anything.

I'm very frustrated and feel I've hit a wall with her. I don't even want to interact with her anymore. I feel like the next time she comes over and is rude and refuses to help I'm just gonna tell her to leave and not come back until she can be respectful and help out. Her father has actually done this with her before. We didn't see her for a little over a month. She even missed her dad's b-day. She was a tiny bit better for a time but of course it made no real impact.

My husband isn't more strict with her like taking her phone away as a consequence because he thinks she'll actually be physically violent with him. He's ex-wife was at certain points in their marriage - she would push him up against a wall and try to choke up out with her forearm. Both SD16 and her mom probably weigh more than my husband.

It feels like a very precarious situation and like I'm a prisoner in my own home when she comes over.

There is actually a rather simple solution to all this. See, WrongPlanet is an open forum. Matter of fact, it's the place that autistic people gather. Any autistic teenager that can google, probably will land here someday. So, instead of waiting for your step-daughter to find out about this forum by herself later, why don't you invite her to visit us at this forum? I am sure she will appreciate your guidance. On our part, we will make sure to sort it all out for you, with her.

Sounds like such a difficult situation.
It might help to know that if she's aspie she may not have much insight into her own behaviour and how it impacts others. We can be quite oblivious.
She might need very clear instruction on boundaries and expectations - because she might not have the understanding of behavioural norms that you'd expect. So perhaps you could pick one or two of the worst problems and set rules (maybe even in writing) to deal with those first.
I'd probably just concentrate on the major issues first and ignore some of the lesser stuff, so she doesn't feel she's being picked on. Ultimately, she is the way she is, and there may be limits to what you can do.
Wishing you luck, I hope things improve for you all.

For a moment I thought you were talking about neurotypical people...

My thoughts:
1. Many aspies have serious problems with big changes in their lifes. SD16 goes/went throught a big change since her parents separated and her father paired with you. She may consiously or unconsiously associate you with the discomfort of the change.
2. It seems SD16 spends at least part of her time with her mother who is not in the best terms with her father and you. Aspies tend to take what is said for the face value so if her mother is blaming you and speaking all the worst about you, she may simply accept it. Then, when you act nice, SD16 is confused. Too confused and insecure. It's really hard for her to deal with contradicting information.
3. I don't get the social aspect of gifts and cards so I guess SD16 may not get it too. She accepts your gifts, maybe even asks you for something because this is what people do and this is what is expected. Ask her if she would be okay if you didn't buy her things.
4. Sometimes AS makes people appear rude and hostile when they are not.

Honestly, I don't have much advice. I just think SD16 is incredibly stressed and confused with the situation of her family. She needs to sort things out before moving on. But I don't have an idea how to help her with this.

All what everybody said is true.

However, no matter how distressed a person is, I do believe a person should be encouraged and implored to be respectful to people. I don't believe Aspergers or Autism is a good enough excuse for people to be rude.

I wouldn't be demanding about it, though. I'm not sure exactly how I would point this out; it depends on the person. But it's good to state that "You always have an ear when you need one. But it would be nice if you weren't rude to me." Or something like that.

thanks everyone - i'm not sure how to move forward either, which is why i posted.

i feel i've tried everything. we have put rules in writing and posted them on the fridge. her dad thoroughly explained them to her and her sister and why we had these rules. they were simple things like clean up after yourself, throw trash IN the trashcan, not next to it, rinse your plate in the sink after a meal, etc. and he told her the point is for our household to run smoothly, to work together to keep it clean, to be respectful of one another because that makes feel people feel good, not bad, etc.

but she still has this snotty attitude towards us. like she shouldn't have to be respectful or help us out. she will argue you into the ground about the simplest thing. she'd rather sit and have conflict with you all night rather than pick up a piece of trash and throw it in the trashcan. it's like she can't ever admit she's made a mistake - even the most minor of mistakes. and we don't approach her with hostility. we always start out with the calmest of approaches. "hey SD16, could you please pick up this piece of trash off the floor and put it in the trashcan?" (she's snotty and hostile, says it's not hers). I know it's hers because she is the only one who has periods in our household and it's a pad wrapper on the floor. I tell her this and STILL she manages to have some sort of excuse as to why it's there, why she shouldn't have to pick it up, etc. she will usually eventually do it but it has to be this huge deal! i try explaining why it's not a big deal. it's just a piece of trash, etc. but she'll turn it around on me. like well if it's not a big deal then why did you even ask me to do it? she's impossible!! !

as far as gifts and cards. i've given up. i'm done giving her anything. i can't wrap my head around why an aspie at least does not understand logically why someone might like to receive a gift from them or why someone might like the aspie to USE the gift given them. giving her gifts and cards and expecting anything back is a complete waste of my time, money and effort. her father and i have tried talking to her about it calmly many times. she's just doesn't get it and doesn't care to get it. it's like she literally does not care that she's hurting us. that goes for other topics as well - being rude and insulting, not helping out, etc.

i can see what you mean about taking things literally and if mom doesn't act like she likes us or supports us then SD16 says ok! no problem! done! i never have to like them or show them respect. they are not people to be respected. there is no nuance here. they can never prove themselves to be worthy of respect. the end. it literally does not matter what we do. we will never be worthy of respect in her eyes (it seems).

as far as telling her about this forum - HAH!! !! ! lol sorry but no. she would get extremely offended and it would just be another excuse for her to disrespect me. the ONLY way she would accept even the idea of her having asperger's or something like it would be if her mom decided to get her evaluated and a professional diagnosed her. but it couldn't be her dad and i getting her evaluated. the professional's diagnosis would automatically not be valid simply because we were involved.

i completely understand that all the changes SD16 has gone through would affect her negatively - make her stressed and anxious and possibly even depressed. this is why i've talked to my husband many times about her and said we should at the very least get her into therapy but her mother is very anti-therapy and therefore SD16 is anti-therapy and it'd be this huge fight to get her there. i'm sure she would be determined to constantly reject it and not get anything out of it. so we feel stuck like there's nothing we can do to help her.

i used to think that if we just set a good example. if we just showed her love and support and encouragement. if we were patient with her. if we were generous with her - that she'd eventually see that we ARE worthy of respect. that we aren't bad people. that we do care about her. i thought she would soften. i thought she'd eventually WANT to help out a little around the house or reciprocate generosity. but no.

best case scenario - she tolerates us. but the second we do one thing she doesn't like- it's back to the drawing board. i feel like we have to start over completely. i feel like a prisoner in my own home sometimes. like i have to walk on eggshells. like she's controlling our lives! she runs the household! she makes the decisions! we have to cater to her!

and i just don't think that's right. we are the adults and she's the child. we set the rules. we set the boundaries. we make the decisions and if she can't fall in line there should be consequences. i honestly don't even want her to come over anymore. i have anxiety and depression myself and i feel like it's bad for my health to even interact with her!

It seems SD16 is amplifying the conflict between you and her mother - taking her mother's site. I don't see how it could be settled without resolving the original conflict or cutting contact at some point. This is the downiside of the famous aspie loyality
Are you in therapy due to your anxiety and depression? If you are, maybe you should discuss it with your therapist. Esp. your desire to end inviting her. Maybe it is not such a bad idea.

EDIT: Did I take it right that she is living primarily with her mother? Then you can leave it to her:
you: Do you want to come?
she: No.
you: Okay, then you stay.
or
you: Do you want to come?
she: Yes.
you: Okay but respect us and our rules.

Yes I've been going to therapy for 2 years and I talk to my therapist about stepfamily issues all the time. Her advice is basically to 1. Set rules 2. Give consequences to breaking rules and 3. Have no emotion about it - detach. Easier said than done.

Sd16 is mainly with her mom. We actually once say to her if you can't be respectful, don't come over and she didn't for a month. But my husband almost desperately wants to have a good relationship with her so most of the time he just ignores her disrespect which doesn't help.

I told him I don't want her over if she can't be respectful. I've reached a breaking point.

Oy

Firstly, if she is on the spectrum, which she very well may be, she is not being handled appropriately. Autistic people often times do not have the same notion of hierarchy that NTs do. They either take it rigidly seriously, or have a completely different understanding of it than NTs. It is possible that she views everyone as substantively equal or she may view herself as higher than you because she was there before you and she views you as an interloper (Yes, even now, and even if not maltreated) It is better if the rules come from your husband or they are clearly house-rules vs even looking like they come from you. You should try not to be offended by this -- If you are treating her well, it is not likely personal. Rules should ideally be kept to a bare minimum, to increase likelihood of compliance. Excessive rule making can lead to less compliance.

As far as expectations regarding gifts and such -- at 16 there is really no need to push this on her. I understand you find it hurtful, but no one is benefiting from this. It may be straining her in ways you don't understand. This has to be worked on when little, and if it didn't take then, I doubt it will take now. I know The Big Bang Theory is controversial around here, and is considered by many to be problematic, but there was an episode where Sheldon agonized over having to give a gift to his neighbor for Christmas b/c she said she was going to get him one, and it throw him in a tizzy. He didn't know what to get, but recognized the social obligation and ended up getting a variety of different things, planning to return all but the one with the same approximate value as whatever she ended up getting him. He ended up giving them all to her in the end afraid it was not enough b/c what she gave him was so awesome. Why don't you ask your SD if she would like for her gift to be to get to opt out of the whole ritual? Sheldon's gf does that sometimes, and he really appreciates it.

Grooming and hygiene are sometimes hard too b/c bathing can be uncomfortable from a sensory perspective and she is not going to see the point in much grooming, necessarily. If she didn't get into a habit before and doesn't see the need now b/c of social bullying or mate seeking, she probably won't do much of it. She might also be depressed. Depression is very common for people on the spectrum, especially when they think no one understands them-- which is likely how she feels.


Whatever her emotional age, she is clearly not very in touch with her feelings. She is definitely not going to understand yours. Anything i would suggest would be for younger kids. Starting from scratch at 16 is tough. Even with NTs the teen years can be really hard --and this is probably the worst age range from which to expect an increase in empathy much less spontaneous helping.

i think the hierarchy thing is true. she does act as though she is above me and it irks me to no end lol i don't address this specific topic with her only to sometimes say - we are the adults in the household and we make most of the major decisions. i want to be sure and clarify that we let both kids makes all sorts of decisions all the time - decisions about their rooms, their bathroom, sometimes what's for dinner, what to watch, what to do on the weekend, etc. we give them a lot of choice and not many rules at all. they can sleep in as late as they want on the weekends, wear pj's all day if we're not leaving the house, be in their rooms all day if they want. they honestly have it really, really good.

so it's really frustrating that i feel as though i can have no standards or expectations at all. literally AT ALL. i can't expect any help ever and can't expect any respect ever. when you KNOW you are treating someone well and they continually treat you like crap you get to a point where you want to stop trying.

like i said, i gave up on the gift thing a long time ago- last xmas. i got her something she really, really wanted for over $100, she was excited to get it, she used it one time ever, then said she never planned to use it again because she was "over it". great! i'm glad i wasted $100 on you! meanwhile she won't even pitch in $10 to get me or her dad a gift. we make it REALLY easy for her to show generosity and she never does. she can either pick out a gift, or just pitch in money - but nope. not interested in either. last year we wanted both kids to donate to a charity of their choice around xmas time - at least $20 - she said she didn't have the money to be giving to charity! this is a kid who's mom makes about $300k, she doesn't want for anything. i couldn't believe how selfish she was being. we explained to her in detail how she actually did have plenty of money, she wasn't going to go hungry or not be able to go to college because she donated $20 once a year to charity. when it came time to donate her sister who was only 12 at the time donated $70 of her own money and of course SD16 only donated the bare minimum of $20 and acted all put out about it. she doesn't have an empathetic, generous bone in her body. she's always only in it for herself. sometimes i think she's a sociopath.

so yeah i totally gave up on her ever understanding the whole gift thing or donation thing about a year ago. fine, whatever. i'm moving on.

as for hygiene, we actually had to make it a rule in our house over summer for her to take a shower every other day because she literally went the first entire week she was with us without taking a shower. i seriously don't think she ever brushes her teeth either! and we're not gonna go into the bathroom every night and make sure she does. she's 16! so i've given up on her hygiene as well.

all i want now is for her to help out when asked the VERY few times we ever ask her to do anything without being a total b*tch about it and not be directly insulting, rude, interrupting, etc. constantly.

i get that if she DOES have anything like asperger's she needed to be evaluated as a child and worked with since then on certain things. if she were my bio-kid, that would have happened. but she's not. it didn't happen and i have to just deal with the situation at hand.

i'm accepting more and more that i either have to let her walk all over me or not be around her.

and side note- it would be a lot easier for me to accept her behavior if she would just nicely say, i'm sorry, i literally do not understand why i should do blank, and then after i explain to her for her to just be like "ok". she doesn't have to understand it but she can at least accept that IT'S A THING. but she's not like that - she's incredibly snarky, b*tchy, rude and insulting. she immediately goes for the jugular. who wants to interact with that?

oh and ps - i DO try to leave all the parenting up to her father but if you have not actually been a stepparent before it's probably hard to imagine how difficult that can be at times.

i can't constantly be running to my husband saying - can you go ask SD16 to do this? can you tell her not to do this?

1. it's like i'm tattle-telling
2. SD16 would obviously notice sometimes that i'm "telling" on her. ex. if she is rude to me and then her dad comes and tells her not to be rude to me. it just makes me look like i AM on her level. like i'm a child telling daddy on her and now daddy is scolding her.
3. sometimes there is literally not time in the day for my husband to do the day-to-day things he needs to do, do fun things with the kids, discipline SD16 for anything he sees her do or not do AND discipline her for things I tell him she's doing or not doing - we don't want to spend our entire lives just disciplining her. i should be able to just say a quick - hey can you please pick up that trash you just threw on the floor? - without it being this huge deal. just because she has an issue with hierarchy, it doesn't turn me into her maid.

i've stepped WAY back from where i started. i barely talk to her unless i have to and when i do talk to her it's usually not in the context of me asking her to do something. it's usually a conversation about something like politics. and i DO sometimes asks her dad to ask her to do something. but i have to remind him constantly til it's done. it's exhausting. i'd rather ask her myself.

Honestly, at this point I would exchange whatever -help- you are trying to make her do in exchange for just the stuff like throwing things on the floor. Again, this is easier with younger kids - but I would tell her if she can just do 3 things like throwing trash where it goes, putting dishes in the sink and rinsing them after using and maybe a third like putting said dish in the washing machine, you will get off her case for the rest. Then don't police it -- let your husband deal with it when he gets home--don't tattle. he can see if there is trash on the floor or not.

The goal here should be self-sufficency -- not doing extra. I understand the point of it, but if she can't even do the basic things for herself, instinctively, expecting her to do things for other people in the family is pointless. With a little kid (even an autistic one) it is easier, b/c you can do the whole we are all in a family and help each other thing and it has a completely different tone. With a teen it ceases to come off in the same fun/instructional way you can do with a child. Plus, I think if she was not making more of a mess for you it would you make feel better than whatever else you are trying to get her to do.

Remember one day, she will presumably be living on her own, and that is what she should be moving towards. If she will be attending college away from home, she will need other skills, like laundry,but that can be a later iteration.

When it is time for that, I would let her just do her own to practice (and I would pitch it as practice for college) and not the family's b/c that is what she will need to learn for college. She will not be taking care of a family, just herself, and that may be hard enough.

yeah i have sometimes said - when you live with a roomate in college they are going to expect you to pick up your own trash, be considerate of them, etc. she has no interest in cooking but i've told her it's a basic life skill. it is a good idea to know how to make a few simple things for herself when she's older. i feel as though that is the only way anything is going to sink in at all.

i think part of my problem is i so would have loved to have had a great relationship with both the kids. the fact that they were both girls was such a relief to me because i usually automatically get along better with girls. i know what to do with them, etc. and it's all worked out with SD13. she's a girly girl who has accepted me from the start, likes to help out, cook, clean, be generous, and do various other things with me like makeup, hair, spa days, shop, paint, etc. because i have this example right in front of me of how things can be it bothers me even more that i can't have this with SD16. and it's not even that she'd have to be a girly girl. she's into animals and anime. i've taken her to the humane society to volunteer when no one else would! i've watched anime with her. if i could just have good convos with her without it turning into her being irritated with me for some confusing reason. or again, if i could ask her nicely to do anything without her freaking out. whenever we have these altercations things come out that indicate she actually despises me and that nothing i have ever done matters.

i interact with other people's teen girls who are her age and they are just so much easier. so easy to talk to, to ask to do something. i know they do things for their parents with no problem. they even go out of their way to surprise their parents with nice things like doing the dishes or giving a great gift. no they're not all peaches and cream all the time. but at least they are SOMETIMES.

SD16 has literally never done one nice thing for her dad or i in 4 years of her own accord.

I'm no expert, so you might not want to put too much weight on this, but based on your description of her behaviour I'm wondering if she might have narcissistic personality rather than Aspergers. I believe NPD does share some similarities re. problems with empathy. The difference, as I understand it, is that aspies generally want to do right by other people, even if they're not sure how, while those with NPD will only do so if it suits themselves.
That's probably a gross oversimplification, I suppose - as I said, I'm no expert.

This repy is not intended to be hurtful - narcissists can't really help the way they are, they're just another variety of personality - but they're notoriously difficult to deal with. You have to keep reminding them of the validity of your own viewpoint and not let them get away with anything really out of order. Pick your battles and stand your ground.
And no, you are not expected to have endless patience. If you can get your husband on side with this, I would send her packing if she crosses important boundaries or is making life miserable.
Good luck.

Two possible theories:

1) Stepdaughter is not aspie. I'm not sure at all from your description. It could be something else. You seem to misunderstand the problem of cognitive empathy in ASD. You're coming at this from a very neurotypical viewpoint, and I can't decide from your text whether the autistic traits are just not there or you are not seeing them. I'm just not seeing an autistic personality, but that's perhaps because you're not seeing her personality either.

2) Stepdaughter is aspie, and she's under an incredible amount of stress at your house, which causes her to lose skills that are not a problem for her at her mom's house. In that situation, her mother would be mystified as to why you guys are having these problems, and yes, blame it on you or your husband. If the mother has autistic traits, they probably understand each other, and the mother is raising the girl in a way that doesn't trigger so much stress, but your husband and you just don't get it, which would lead to the mother thinking that you are very callous people and that you just really don't care. No gift in the world can fix that.

Just my 2c, I find this whole thing mystifying. You've written a lot, but there still seems to be some missing information.