Discipline and Aspergers

Post Reply New Topic

I have a mid teen stepson who was diagnosed with Aspergers about 4 years (give or take) ago. He's very bright and seemingly high functioning. When he's in a good place (for lack of a better term) he's engaging, funny etc.

When he's in a bad place (again for lack of a better term) he's got the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. He doesn't care what the impact of his actions are on other family members or schoolmates. He's belligerent, can be physically intimidating and disruptive.

What I struggle with is that I can't tell what's pretty much normal 15 year old stuff, he's almost impossible to get going in the morning, fights doing homework, etc., and what are Aspergers characteristics. At times it feels like he's decided that he's disabled and therefore he doesn't have to live by any of the same rules that the rest of the world has to follow.

He sees specialists and we're doing everything we can think of to try and make a difference but lately it feels like we're moving backwards. Discipline gets him to do what he needs to but it only seems to make him more sullen. Just to be clear when we talk discipline, we're talking about enforcing rules of the home, not something out of the ordinary for him.

I'm guess I'm wondering if this is common and if anyone has experienced this and how you've dealt with it. I'm also wondering how you keep the toll on your self from being so intense. Lastly I'm interested in the view from someone with Aspergers. What are your thoughts?

Thanks

I'm currently reading The Explosive Child by Dr. Ross Greene. It is about children that have impulse, temper problems. It's been highly recommended here among the parents. My son is 7 and "high functioning autistic" for what it's worth. We're dealing with many of the same issues. However, many of my son's problems are rooted in speech and language.
I find that providing a written chart of rules and expectations helps rather than making everything verbal. The sensory issue can overwhelm or underwhelm autistic kids when dealing with a parent who is "nagging" or "lecturing". Written schedules and rules always support activities here.

I was like that when I was younger, it was a fight to get me up in the morning, I refused to do my homework, I just basically did what I wanted to do. My family was much more harsh on discipline, but the thing that worked for me was just giving me some time to regroup myself. I went crazy my sophomore year of high school, and ended up dropping out of school for a couple months and eventually returned, but the time off gave me time to think about things and regroup my thoughts. I'm not saying let him drop out of school, it was a wrong descision on my part, but I'm saying is maybe he needs a vacation away from society.

I have HFA, I for one get really frustrated, upset and my heart starts hurting really bad due to so much stimulation, sensory overload, and because It takes a lot of work just to try to be normal so you can fit into society. I get headaches 247 trying my hardest to try to give any kind of eye contact, to face situations on my own, to socialize is just a huge stress factor alone, and not being able to stim and not being able to relax makes things even worse. The stress just trying to fit in society to try to be accepted can literally cause a huge meltdown for me. I found that taking breaks away from society helped me, even if its as simple as going in my room blasting my music to block out every noise I can hear, and just laying in bed and rocking back in forth for hours until I can just regroup myself. Maybe you just need to leave him be for a day or so and just let him relax. Or you can suggest maybe he can go to a park or maybe what can work, which works for me also, is just take the rest of the family out and leave him home alone for a day if you can. I'm so happy when nobody is home, its quiet, nobodys nagging, no socializing needs to be done, and I can stim as much as I want, and keep the lights off, so I don't get any headaches! Thats just my thoughts, and opinions, hope they helped you alittle!

First of all, I recommend you visit http://asdgestalt.com/viewtopic.php?p=16830#16830 to learn abous AS. You might also want to read The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood. It's a very well-written book, it's an easy read, and it's packed with all kinds of extremely useful information.

Being disorganized and lacking some kinds of self-motivation can be related to Asperger's. To be clear, we're talking about executive dysfunction here. I have HUGE problems with this, but not all AS people do. It might help with homework and chores if you lay it out for him (visually, not verbally) what steps he needs to take (and when to take them) to complete a task.

It's important to distinguish between meltdowns and tantrums. Meltdowns tend to be caused by sensory over-stimulation. This can be caused by all kinds of things, including music, bright lights, a messy room, strong smells, or yelling. It takes a while to come down from a meltdown.

A tantrum is... well, the screaming kid at the supermarket who screams and cries because his Mom won't buy him a chocolate bar, and then as soon as he gets what he wants he's instantly fine.

I would not recommend medication (especially for someone so young) unless he is at serious risk of hurting himself. If he is on antidepressants, you might want to consider taking him off of them, as counterintuitive as this might seem. Antidepressants mute anxiety (along with every other emotional experience including guilt and empathy) and can cause extreme apathy and lack of motivation.

A lot of people come to this site with the same sorts of questions. I have a 12 year old boy and we had very similar problems, and I posted a very similar message a few months ago.

As you learn about AS though, you will begin to realize a few things.

1.) This is a severe disorder. This is not a kid who is basically normal throwing a tempertantrum to get their way. Their brain does not work the way an NT brain works. This is not just a bad case of ADHD, or spoiled brat syndrome.

2.) Individuals are frequently labled as being manipulative. But this is not true. You just can't assign "motive" to the actions of a child with AS.

You are right, at the height of an emotional outburst, he is 5. That is just something you have to accept. You are not going to be able to get him to see things from your point of view or consider others.

I have found this refusal to engage in the 5 year old tantrum the best method of making sure things don't get out of hand.
Basically, he behaves in a manner that is not appropreate, and you can try to advice him in simple language that it is not appropreate. Don't bring in other people feelings or emotions, he won't relate to that. If he tries to escalate the situation, ignore it. Lay down the rule, and walk away. Maybe you can talk about it a bit more later on when he is calm and more able to look at the situation objectively.

I have sent you a PM about my personal experainces with this.

Also though, as a stepfather, I suggest you try and get his mother to deal with this as much as possible. Generally disapline coming from an acting step parent is not as well recieved.

We can coach you through specific situations, it is hard to advise on a general level. But by re evaluating a few situations, you may learn how to better deal with situations.

I don't think I completely agree, EarthCalling. I think that kids with AS can easily be spoiled brats- just as easily as anyone else. I also think that, although having AS makes certain things more difficult, anyone will achieve more if they are expected to succeed. If you let a child give up all the time and say "I can't do it because I have AS," they will never learn to overcome their difficulties and cope with life. On certain issues, the grading scale should certainly be adjusted, but as always, you'll be amazed what you can do if you never say "I can't."

I am not saying that they get a blank check as far as behavior goes, or that they should just be able to say "I can't." Sorry if it came across that way.

I am just saying, you can't expect them to behave in the way that an NT child their age does. They do get overwhelmed, and do have meltdowns, and you can't convince them in the middle of one that they are being selfish or unreasonable, and many an outburst is not due to being a spoiled brat or manipulative, it is due to the fact they are totally and completely overwhelmed and distraught.

Bad behavior needs to get corrected. It is the way you go about this though that needs to be adressed. Why the behavior is unacceptable needs to be explained in a way that does not ask them to relate to others.

For example "We don't hit other people, it hurts them and it is not acceptable". Not "How do you think Sally felt when you hit her, why did you do that?"

For the most part, you are not going to have any luck trying to reason with a kid who is hystarical and emotionally 3 or 5 years old. The best way to pull them out of it is to just plain not engage in the downward spiral in the first place. Set the expectation, let them come to you when they are ready to comply.

For example. Sam won't clean his room. You tell Sam, "you need to clean your room, you can't leave the house until it is done". Sam flips out because he wants to go to the movies. Ask him "What do you need to do to go to the movies?" Make sure he understands he needs to clean the room. He starts hurling insults and getting out of control. Set the expectation, "you need to clean the room, I can help you if you need me to, but you are not going until it is clean". If he looses it further, and says some rather inappropreate things, don't take the bait, the issue is about the room, not about his hating you, or everything being crap, or the fact he swears at you. The issue is the room, don't loose site of that. Tell Sam "You know what you need to do to go to the movies, your language is not appropreate and not appreciated, I have offered help, when you are ready to get your room clean and if you want some help, come see me but I expect you to be civil". Then walk away, go to another room, go outside, don't engage in the spiral.

Yeah, I see your point, EarthCalling. I just worry that people use AS as too much of an excuse sometimes. That's why I distinguished between tantrums and meltdowns in my post. This man's step-son might have AS, but he might also just be undisciplined. It's dangerous to immediately say, "Give the kid a break; he can't help it!" when the kid might actually be able to help it and he's just behaving like a jerk because he's learned that behaving that way gets him what he wants.

Here's my theory: Most of us in the older generation, who weren't diagnosed as kids, are used to people not understanding us. We're used to never catching a break and people always expecting us to be able to do everything the way a typical kid can. So our reflex is always to make sure that doesn't happen to the next generation.

I think it's often an overcorrection.

Look at the original post again. The man said his step-son was sometimes physically intimidating. That's dangerous. It's equally unacceptable for anyone- including people who are neurotypical, mentally ret*d, genius or autistic.

Discipline away, Stepdad. You certainly have my blessing.

We'd have to be there to know what exactly is going on. As every story has two sides.
The child may be underdisciplined or overdisciplined. My parents were strict authoritarians that took everything personally. They even made up sins I had done to punish me and set an example. It didn't really toughen me up or make me behave, it made me paranoid, shut down and completely distrustful of authority.

I was a decent kid that never got in trouble with the law and only sometimes at school. But I was berated on every perceived thing. When I did do something wrong, I lied and snuck. I learned to not trust my parents and felt justified when I did break rules. That's because they,
1)wouldn't speak in plain language why something may be wrong
2)often set standards that they didn't live by
3)applied personal emotions to actions, that is they assumed a lot behind my "motives"

Earthcalling is basically describing some of the tactics used in The Explosive Child. She is in no way saying that the child is always right or can be excused. She is giving examples of preventing outbursts in the first place.

That is true, it is unacceptable, however sometimes the physically intimidating behavior comes as a last resort from the child, or at the end of a long series of escalations. Not knowing how to use words to communicate their frustration, it builds to the point it becomes physical rage. Definately not acceptable, but at the same time often preventable if you break the cycle of escalating conflict.

StepDad also says that they do have a DX of AS, maybe it is true AS, maybe it is not, but I am not going to be the one to question it, I posted on the assumption that the parents and doctors dealing with the situation have a correct DX. It is true that we don't know everything going on. That is why I suggested that it would be helpful to post some specific problems or senarios that they have had to get feedback on what could have been done differently for a more positive outcome. Maybe nothing could have been done, but it is hard to give advice with such general information... No two situations or children are the same.

Welcome to Stepfather's Anonymous. I've been Z's Dad for about 5 years. I've worked with a lot of teen boys through the last couple of decades. Thinking that he doesn't have to follow the same rules as others do may be more age appropriate than you think, all teens are convinced that adults are the most ignorant creatures ever devised. His immature responces are probably a rersult of his Aspergers.

If you view AS as a disability so will he. If you view it as a challenge he can over come so will he. It is a draining situation but it is one that can be surmounted. It takes a lot of patience and a lot of effort. He needs to realize, that even being dxd with AS he is still responcible for his actions. Appropriate behavior brings rewards, inapproprite behavior brings undesireable results. Stick to your guns and follow through with discipline but remember you can temper it with mercy when "appropriate".

I think it is normal to see progress and relapses. Set for behavior and time frames for meeting those goals. Z is still preteen, but this has worked for him. Oh, do not to forget recognize and reward the meeting of goals, he needs to see the effort is worthwhile.

Does he have an IEP in place with his school. If he doesn't start kicking and screaming until he does. He needs it.

The other responders have given good advice, do consider it and let us know how you feel about our advice. Feedback is good for us too.

Profanity needs to go. It is so important because the profanity increases meltdowns. It is just as bad as physical abuse.

I agree, with earth calling, that you have to remain calm but I do think the profanity should be addressed and not ignored as if he/she didn't say the f word. "Don't use profanity" said very calmly with an element of surprise, as if you didn't expect it, seems to be effective. Worked with my older sons. LIttle ds doesn't use profanity (only dabbles in it sometimes)

That's pretty much how my family life was. As soon as I was able to understand the concept of authority (around age 3, I think), I started seeing all adults as my enemies. I lived my life walking on eggshells, and to this day, that's the only way of life I know. As a result, my self-esteem was virtually non-existent (although bullying contributed to that). The only time my parents praised me is when I got a good grade, or when I "kissed ass" properly. So now, when I'll be moving into my own apartment in less than two weeks, they have a lot of trouble letting go; they're totally against it. Isn't it ironic that the worse parents treat their kids, the more trouble they have letting go?

Aspie1, the type of parents you and I are describing are control freaks, that's why they miss us when we're gone. Don't be surprised if they start buying pets and talking about them incessantly.

I hope the original poster comes back. I thought we were gentle with him.

Mine will sell the house and live on the street before they buy a pet. They always said: "we are not keeping any kind of animal in the house!" At the same time, I was always very lonely in the family, and I begged them for years to buy a pet, telling them how much it'll make me happy. After all, the people in the family made me feel like their enemy, so a pet seemed like the only one who could love me unconditionally. Because of that, I internalized the belief that happiness isn't supposed to come to you until you're an adult, and that being miserable is a kid is normal. However, in my parents' defense, they relented one time, and bought a hamster, who lived for about 18 months. (My psychiatrist at the time convinced them.)

As for the original poster, I think this is a common phenomenon on the Parents' Forum, which gets used both by parents of aspies and aspies themselves. A parent starts a thread where he or she talks about discipline, family rules, or another parent-child relationship problem. In response, in response, aspie teens and young adults immediately take the child's side, because of how they were abused or mistreated in the past; a post about discipline strikes a sore nerve for one reason or another. While the intent is to give the child's perspective on the situation, it has the side-effect of intimidating the original poster. I've seen this happen more than once.

Thanks for all the feedback. My hope is by asking questions and listening to opinions, that I'll get more insight.

Without applying to each point, let me reply to a few things.

If it was just the lack of desire to go to school, or do home work, I'd be less concerned. The fact we're dealing with that, and the fact that he can be physically intimidating, and that the intimidation is often the result of trying to enforce the most basic rules of the house.

I've been away for a few days and will post more later.

And you have been gentle with me. As I said, I'm trying to learn where I can.

Thanks.