How not to interpret everything you read!

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I have started reading Playful Parenting to try to find some tips that would work on our grandson...I said, from what I got from it, that you should try to surprise him and "side" with him for a change...today, he was in a mood, so I thought I'd try this suggestion. He wanted to put those plastic bottle holders, the kind that was in "Happy Feet" outside so the birds would get stuck in them and die. I said "Yeah, let's do that". He was so surprised that I would go along with that. He then went on to the next idea he had, and again I agreed with that as well....He got really upset with my attitude and decided to really test me. He got a knife and held it up by his chest and proclaimed that he would stab himself and die - now Who's side was I on if I wanted to keep agreeing with him?" As startled as I was, I said well, if that's what you really want to do ...... he put the knife down and ran off saying I didn't really love him.....Naturally, I went to him and explained that of course I loved him....and always would. Guess I didn't do a very good job interpretting this book.

I can hardly remember any times when anyone in my family took my side. interesting. one gets so used to being opposed it's disturbing to be agreed with, I suppose. keep it up!

So, Post Person, you think this was a step in the right direction with "reaching" him? He was upset with his Mom earlier, and admitted that he was lashing out at me....the book that I read, also said, that we should let him chatter on and on...that eventually, he will say something that he might not tell us if we simply ask "how was your day" or "what did you do today"....but, it seems that I am the only one that can actually hear him......it is as though the rest of the family has totally tuned him off......I want to reach him so badly...he is only 7 and I don't want him to get lost !

yeah, i like the sound of it, it would be nice to have a family member who agrees with or sides with you, it probably shocked him though. I'd keep at it, if his mother doesn't mind.

as for 'chatting on'...well if you can cope with it i suppose there's nothing wrong with that, language isn't as 'real' for autistic people as it is for others, it's a toy, like something you play with, so he's playing with it yeah, that's better than nothing.

sudden change in ur behaviour annoyed him mayb

something like that. unpredictability, deceit maybe, but he's gotta get used to that.

I just had a thought, maybe in agreeing with him, you'll be teaching him the concept of 'being agreeable', you know agreeing with people just to be social, to form bonds, it could be very interesting. autistic people are hopeless at that, to their cost, so any progress in that area could be useful.

I've got a book called "Asperger Syndrome and Difficult Moments: Practical Solutions for Tantrums, Rage, and Meltdowns" by Brenda Smith Myles and Jack Southwick.

I read it front to cover, most of the suggestions given would have enraged me more, but obviously some of these ideas work because it makes a book:

it says you have to use these techniques before a meltdown begins, before it actually begins there is usually a set of behavoirs your grandchild will do.

this list i copied from the book, it's meant for a school setting but i guess you could modify it for home use.

Antiseptic Bouncing (soccerfreak approved!)
involves removing a student, in a non-punitive fashion from the enviroment in which he is experiencing difficulty and assigning a new task. EX. remove your grandson from whatever and then ask him to put the mail in the mailbox.

Proximity Control (this one would annoy me)
rather than calling attention to the behavoir, stand next to the student who is experiencing difficulty.

Signal Interference (annoying)
when a student is experiencing difficulty, the teacher uses a nonverbal signal to let the student know that she is aware of the situation. The teacher can use eye contact or a "secret signal" like flicking the lights or a look away.

touch control (i'd smack the b***h who'd lay a hand on me)
sometimes a touch can serve to stop behavoir. Gently touching the foot or leg of a student who is tapping his feet loudly may stop.

Defusing Tension Through Humor (good if it's dont right)
this technique involves using a joke in a potentially tense or eruptive moment. A joke can often prevent group contagion from occuring and salvage an interrupted lession. Care must be taken to ensure that student understands the humor and does not percieve himself as target of a joke.

Support from Routine
Displaying a chart or visual schedule of expectations and events can provide security to students.

Interest Boosting (soccerfreak approved)
sometimes showing personal interest in a student and her hobbies can assist a student in acting appropriatly. This involves a) making the student aware that you recognize her individual preferences or b) structing lessions around topic of interest.

home base (soccerfreak approved)
when student is experiencing difficulty, the teacher sends him to the home base, which is place whre the students can regain control. EX. send yur grandchild to his room or a special area of the house.

acknowledging student difficulties (annoying)
when the student breaks the rule, the teacher says out loud using eyecontact and including his name in the statement saying "everybody follows this rule" EX. your grandson threw something say "now we can't throw stuff everybody follows this rule".

walk dont talk (soccerfreak approved)
letting the student say anything he wants to the teacher without being punished for it. Just like the "chatting on" thing. EX. take your grandson out for a walk and do the "chatting on" thing.

The following may be very helpful in reaching your grandson:

Cartooning
a comic strip of social situations, used by speech teachers to understand their clients. But then later used by other teacher people for asperger's patients.

Hello Grandma,

Good on you for taking such an interest in your grandson - you are a valuable asset to him.

I have 3 sons - my 9 and 7 year old have Asperger's. We also have a 4 year old son.

My Mum - the boys' Nanna - posts on WrongPlanet as NannaRob.

My parent's place is a haven for the boys. When they're getting overtired or stressed at school, I will send them to my Mum's place for a holiday for a few nights. (she lives about a 1 hour drive away).

My kids loving going there. They have their set routine. My Dad takes them to a bakery and buys them whatever they want for breakfast.

In the morning they play computer, play toys, go for a walk with Mum and the dogs and watch tv. They have a rest in the afternoon and often fall asleep. In the afternoon more playing.

I suggest you ask my Mum for advice. Send a PM to NannaRob. I know the boys always come back refreshed and happy after a holiday at her house.

Helen

Hi! My daughter Smelena asked me to reply.

How much suppport does your grandson get at home? My grandsons have total support from their parents, and counselling from Tony Attwood's clinic (asperger's guru), so my role is support only.

The most beautiful book I read is "Everything you need to know about Aspergers". I forget the name of the author but it is beautifully written by a male aspergers author. It is a must-read book about the child with aspergers. I will get the name of the author from the library tomorrow and post you.

One thing I've learnt is that the love and support you want to give on an emotional level is not really understood. What my grandsons understand is action and doing what you say you will do.

They had to list who is on their support team. I am on the support team because I buy computer games and my husband because he takes them to the bakery and he's crazy. I was surprised by this response. I 'reach out' to them with love and warmth and caring. They have been totally unaware of this on an emotional level.

I started a thread in which I asked aspies to reach out to their parents or loved ones and support them. I was asked the question "What does reach out mean?"..."Oh, now I know what my girlfriends mean!"

Another thing I have learnt is that your grandson will grow and develop. At times in meltdowns you may feel overwhelmed but you will get through this.

I haven't really answered your question because it is Smelena who is the expert. My advice is to stay on Wrong Planet, ask questions, read many posts including Members Only, General Autism Discussion, Parent's Discussion, and come to the ex-dino cafe in the Introduction Forum for a bit of fun and relief.

Robyn

I have been reflecting on the book you read and the technique you described seems useless to me. With an aspie child your word is your bond. Your words must be true. Seeming to agree when you don't is lying as far as the aperger's child - indeed any child - is lying. It is also manipulative.

Robyn

A couple years ago I came across a website where many people were like me - same thoughts, same feelings. Seemed like whenever I opened a thread someone had already posted what I would have. I couldn't take it at first, and so I foten stayed away for weeks, or even months at a time. But gradually I became used to it and quickly developed into a very active and valued member, making significant contributions to the inner workings of the site, and the publiclity therof.





Uggh, I ahte those pointless questions. Especially "what did you do today" when you have only done something such as go to school - My mom says that whenever she asked me that when I was in pre-school I would answer "nothing" and then she'd ask me grandfather who would say we went out to eat, visited X and Y, played Z game, etc... But why would I say all that - we did it every time he picked me up from school. Those questions were almost as bad as being told to tell someone hi from another person - I could never ever figure out when one would bring up something such as "Joe said to tell you hi."







If there were others around who were not being removed, I would see this as nothing more than a deliberate punishment and a very public manner of attempting to get rid of me/show the others that they should think something is wrong with me



This would definately set my mind ablaze with further determination and plans for revenge though most often I only imagined those plans, repeatedl, increasing my initiaal anger than actually acting upon them



Unless its something like flicking the lights or ringing a bell, this would have been useless for me. And indeed considering aspies significant trouble with eye contact I must wander why using eye contact with the student is a suggestion. Anything the teacher did without some sort of external awareness would have been lost because in the event I actually did happened to be looking at the teacher I'd be looking at the chest or waist not the face or hands - this caused me some trouble when I was forced to see a guidance counselor due to my parents getting a divorce. She'd always get mad at me for not looking at her when I was staring straight at her (her chest).


That would be beyond quite embarassing in any public setting, and as a teacher I can guarantee the other students who witnessed it would be making fun of the child for it. Though its possible to do it an unnoticeable way - say by tapping the foot with your foot



Excellent advice. I'd say its best to tell a joke completely unrelated to the situation at hand - that way there is virtually no possibility of the child feeling he is being made fun of. Second best is to specifically name someone else who is unknown to all the children - say "my cousin/brother/son..."

But some care must also be taken on the part of the joke teller to not get overabsorbed. I know we used to deliberately distract my 5th grade teacher because once she mentioned her son she'd talk about him for an hour or long, forgoing lessons. I believe the first time she ever mentioned him was in response to a students messy desk, and her telling how he was so messy she once found jelly smeared all over the refridgerator door.



Excellent. In my 3nd grade student teaching class their was a boy with extreme behavior problems but the brightest before. He hadn't been diagnosed with anything and I wasn't familiar enough with asperger's to even consider suggesting it. They eventually developed a behavior intervention plan for him that made significant improvements. I wasn't privy to the entire plan but as part of they had taped a class schedule to his desk and he was to check off events as they occurred. Then at the end of the week he'd turn in his schedules for each day to get a small prize such as a pencil



Awesome idea. I loved how my junior english teacher always encouraged me even though I pretty much only ever used my knowledge of history to point out mistakes in his lectures. Pnce he took me aside and said he liked that because he had done the same thing with his english teacher.



This is good but must be done extrememly carefully, because you can easily end up with the child acting up for no other reason than they want to go to the homebase. The hs guidance counselor told us of one girl who was always in trouble and loved ISS better then OSS. Well he finally spoke to her and discovered she like dbeing away from things. So they changed it so that the next time she'd act up her punishment would be to set in the cafeteria through all the lunch periods (3). He said they never had trouble with her again.



Saying my name in something like that would cause me quite a bit of anger and irritation, also embarassment. It would be difficult to ever forgive the person who had publically embarassed me like that, if I were to forgive them at all.



This is good but often not feasible in schools, even when there is a designated contact person (because they have other obligations and other students to respond to)




Excellent idea. I was probably 23 years old before I could say "sorry" or accept it as a nice gesture, because growing up I had always been forced to say "sorry" when I was the least bit bothered by what I had done, and would gladly do it again. Sorry was a "bad word" in my mind. And it actually wasn't until I took the test to be diagnosed for aspergers that it ever occured to me that saying "sorry" was something you did to make the other person feel better - the test question said something like "ie not realizing that saying "sorry" would make the other person feel better." amd I was like "Hey I didn't know that."

Thank you for your insight. Some of these ideas do help - the cartooning and actually body language (if I put my hand on my hip and give him the "look", he will actually say "what"?). Zach does say I'm sorry, but I have asked him if he really means it and sometimes he will say no...he's honest.

I'm concerned with his lack of respect for others. I have tried finding pictures on the internet of kids fighting - copying them and then putting the circle with the slant thru them.....he's very familiar with the "no smoking" signs....but, if provoked (and kids do provoke him) he will not take any crap from them and then he's the one sent to the office. I don't want to see anyone pick on him, just want to find a better way for him to handle things that occur at school.

I want to find the magic potion that will allow him to actually enjoy life!

Thanks for all responds,
Deb

Quote:
acknowledging student difficulties (annoying)
when the student breaks the rule, the teacher says out loud using eyecontact and including his name in the statement saying "everybody follows this rule" EX. your grandson threw something say "now we can't throw stuff everybody follows this rule".


Saying my name in something like that would cause me quite a bit of anger and irritation, also embarassment. It would be difficult to ever forgive the person who had publically embarassed me like that, if I were to forgive them at all.

Me too! This kind of guff was said to me at school and it made me lose all trust in the teacher concerned.

This could be in part the teachers fault. I know when I was in school the teachers never intervened UNTIL I did/said something in my defense, which sent a clear message to all the students in the room that it was okay to pick on me, but it wasn't ok for me to do something in my defense.

So of course, given this series of events, hitting the provacator made alot more sense - then at least something would have been done about their harassment. And a swollen eye was all it took for the biggest bully to never say anything about me again.

You can also have the teachers/principals arrange it so he isn't to be left alone, or sit near the kids who do the most provoking - the principal is usually quite willing for this initiative, but it depends on the teachers willingness for how likely it is to be implemented and implemented consistently. It is also important that any substitutes be left a note about it.

Does he have an IEP? I know of IEP's where a child has a core group of 2-4 friends that will always be in his general ed classes, and will be given assigned seats near him. These are children that can be relied on to accept him and not harass him.

That's interesting and scary at the same time. Although, it is True that many younglins search all possible ways to get attention...

Parents (or legal gardians) may set up codes of conduct and praise good behavior and treat unwanted behavior... (With me, sometimes that works, at least the structure and the codes)

NB: I did not recall to be outcast at school (asocial, yes, but outcast, no)