Concerta, Adderall -- neither one is showing effectiveness

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We are trying various ADD drugs for my 11 year old son -- he has been on Strattera and Concerta last month, with absolutely NO CHANGE. We saw no difference at all.

Now he's on Adderall. Again, from what I can see, NO CHANGE. This surprises me, since I've read that a lot of people like Adderall to help them pay attention in school or work.

My son is doing well in school, mostly because we do tons of work outside of school to compensate for his not paying attention in school. We are lucky in that he can write papers without too much help, and he retains information well, so he does well on tests. He does NOT pay attention in class, though, and homework often takes from 3:30 pm until 10:30 or 11:00 pm to finish. This seems to be brutal to him. He just cannot stick with an assignment, even though he can easily do it.

We do not have any hyperactivity issues. I often think we are trying ADD drugs that are not effective for his situation -- usually ADD drugs are trying to CALM A CHILD DOWN so that they can concentrate. We are actually trying to wake our son up, trying to help him break out of his "zoning out" situation in school and after school with homework. I kind of thought Adderall would work for him. We don't see the point to all of these meds if there is no change -- he might as well have no meds at all.

Kris

8 hours homework for an 11 year old boy? That is freaking ludicrous! The poor kid is probably exhausted. For goodness sakes, lay off making him do so much homework. Even a senior wouldn't do that much. Let him be a child while he still can be but do please tell the doctor that the medications aren't working.

If the issue is that he does not pay attention in class, could there be an underlying cause to this? Like being distracted by sensory issues or some other aspect of the environment, or teachers not explaining things in a way that caters to his style of learning, or lack of support from the school?

Are there any other schools or learning programmes that cater more to the needs of a child with ADD in your area?
(I have AS and ADHD / ADD and I think I would really have benefitted from a specialist learning programme as I did not thrive in mainstream school. Sadly, none was available at the time.)

It would be great if there was medication that helped, but it might be worth reviewing what practical measures the school can put in place too.

Regarding homework, I believe that some homework is a good thing - I found it especially helpful in enabling me to learn to work independently and this was an invaluable skill when I went on to study for GCSEs, A Levels and then at University.
But I do agree with Pandora that 8 hours is pretty excessive and that this must be pretty tiring.

8 hours homework..., I asked around real quick, my class is doing the highest education on a normal highschool, (class for 15-16 year olds) a few do homework 8 hours per wekk. most 2 or 4. im dead after 2 hours of homework. I have no idea how an 8 year old boy can do 8 hours homework, but it must be hard, really really hard

The poor kid!

We live in a very high-stress, high achieving school district in Pittsburgh, which was great for our other two kids. It is also good for our 11 year old, in that there are many accomodations made for our son (more time on tests, tests given verbally sometimes rather than written, etc.). The school district has a pretty good understanding of aspergers.

This 8 hour marathon homework happens about once a week. Sometimes less than once a week. It is horrendous, and we try to minimize it, but if you're in middle school, and three classes have tests the next day, plus homework assignments, and your son can't concentrate, then what should be about four hours ends up sometimes taking 8 hours. It's awful, to be sure. Last night he had one math assignment, which took an hour. He also had a word search for science (purely busy work), which we work on with him because it's basically pointless, but he gets extra points for finishing it (which will often make up for late work or forgotten assignments).

We try really hard to give him down time, to just be a kid. That's a big thing with me -- I think we ask way too much of our kids nowadays, and there's never enough time to just stop and smell the roses. I hate that fact.

I am keeping in much better contact with the doctor, and I am telling him that the meds aren't working. He always sounds surprised. He's a good guy, and unfortunately my son LOVES him -- I say unfortunately, because I swear the doctor is aspie as well (undiagnosed, and it's purely MY theory) and yet doesn't understand the situation fully. I'm going to have to really make my point the next time I talk to him -- there are NO add indications, just the aspie "zoning out" with class and homework. If meds can't help, then we are going to have to just get off this merry-go-round.

Kris

I found that Adderall made me simply fixate on my obsessions more intensely...and that meant that I was still yet less able to focus on the things I HAD to do but was less interested in...but I was taking it as an adult.

like, starting at a low dose and working up until there is some effect? I'm not sure but I think both Concerta & Strattera are sustained-release meds, I bet they would be hard to titrate. Adderall is not sustained-release; while there is a sustained release form, just plain Adderall (amphetamine) is short acting.

There are 2 in our family on Adderall and in both cases it took starting at a low dose (I think 5 mg) and working upwards. It's very effective for us.

It is said that ADD drugs actually do the opposite of what is intended in kids on the spectrum.

Judging from my own experience with Ritalin, I would have to agree.

AD/HD drugs do the opposite of what is intended for anyone who does not have AD/HD. Ritalin especially is not good for those who have anxiety issues (it is very similar to caffeine).

Yes, that autism and ADD medication can sometimes don't get along with each other I have heard too. It's even worse if a person has additional diagnoses that can interfere with the meds. In some cases it's working very good though, but even in people with 'just' ADD medication can fail badly.
ADD medication is usually trying to stimulate a child though, not calm him. That's what is needed to help a child that has issues because of AD(H)D.

I suggest finding out to be sure whether it's just AS or ADD on top of that. Or are you sure now that it's definitely not anything ADD related?


Edit: All right, people beat me on how AD(H)D meds work while I was away from the computer for a few minutes.

But it's not like a person without AD(H)D will definitely have the reverse reactions to AD(H)D meds. Whether ritalin or anything that is given to AD(H)D people works on a person or not is no indicator whether this person has AD(H)D or not. Giving any kid ritalin can make them operate better, definitely for a short period, but maybe also for a long-term.
Meds can't be used to determine whether a diagnosis is correct or not, although some psychiatrists do just that for whatever silly reason.

We tried Ritalin, and it worked a little. Then we tried metadate for our son, and that worked very well, for about a year and half -- then it lost it's effectiveness. We never saw much hyperactivity before our son began taking this type of medication, but once he began to take it, daily as the med wore off, he was somewhat hyperactive THEN.

He shows no hyperactivity signs of ADD -- if there's more to it than that, then yes, he might have it. I really don't know. Even the doctor brought up the fact that he might not have adhd.

Kris

what about anti-anxiety meds ?...could it be he's shutting down due to overwhelming anxiety ?

Not having any experience with those (or any) drugs, I won't comment on them.

However have you thought that his homework problem has more to do with an established routine, no matter how unpleasant the consequences are, that he expects? My son would have spells where it took him an hour to do a page of homework that actually took about 3 minutes. He'd just get into the routine of stalling, whining, asking for help when he didn't need to.
If something unpleasant happens enough times, he expects it and will do things to bring it about.

I also procrastinated and it just ruins your day if you're coming home to this work and you know you have until 11pm to finish it.

Have you tried timing the homework differently? I wouldn't have my son start homework until after dinner and thensome. He eats at 6pm, homework is at 7:00 or 7:30. That gives him a pleasant hour to do it with free time afterwards. An older child with more work would still have plenty of time before bed.

I would not make my kid sit there for 8 hours. Either he has too much work or he is unable to pace himself with that much "free time".

You said that you tried Ritalin and it worked a little. It works for my son who was originally diagnosed with ADD (now Aspergers). BUT you need to get the right dosage for his age/weight or it won't work. Too much and they become drowsy/dopey, too little and there's no effect. If he's going through growth spurts, the correct dosage could be all over the place and will need to be continually monitored and tested.

Now... Homework.

My 7 year old (was in Yr1) did 60-90minutes of homework per day. That is a LOT and the teachers said as much.

If he acted like he wasn't going to do it, then we didn't. Homework needs to be a fun thing, if it's pressuring him... stop. Send him outside to play. He won't learn anything if he's not interested.

The school, no matter how high-flying it is, won't be happy with the hours he's doing - do they know? If they do know, remember... you're the parent, you're the boss. You can say to them - "My son didn't finish his homework today, but he spent 90 minutes on it - he is not to be penalized". If necessary, make it a standing order.

homework is not fun--it is engaging and encourages concentration and exercises the mind.

My son has difficulty doing anything mental outside of school--he's spinning in front of the mirror and watching I-Carly right now. This is his idea of fun. Imagine me trying to make him do his worksheets?

Now, he's organizing furniture, putting it in different spots, standing back and admiring like an artist. And now, looking behind the mirror on the wall--he sees something--not sure what. He loves the mirror!

No, worksheets are not fun for my son anyway. Maybe it is for the child who loves school. My son doesn't love school. He loves learning about what he wants to learn, but not what he's forced to learn. What about a thematic study--let the child choose their area of study and then do homework on this particular subject (approved by teacher). School is way too teacher directed and doesn't allow for enough student-driven study. Smart kids have troube with this type of instruction.

I wish I could send him to an alternative school. I'm not pleased with traditional schooling. It was developed to train the masses to work in factories and assembly lines.

As a teacher, I let my kids know we're going to think--I expect lots of laughter, digression, debate and critical thought--and then we do a bit of work. When I get observed, I return to best teaching practices (I can do this too).

I can so relate to the child that cringes at dittos and worksheets--I was one of those kids. I preferred my own mode of study. I loved the dictionary.

I refuse to give my students busy work--no way.

equinn