question about executive functioning

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Even though I am an adult, 34, I bought the book "smart but scattered" about improving children's exec functioning skills. In the begining it basicly says that if someone does not learn executive functioing skills by the time they are 14 or so, they will never learn them. The developmental window of oppertunity closes.

I have executive functioning dysfuction as well as ASD. My worst areas are initation cause I have a bad case of autistic inertia. Changing activities with me is like pulling teeth. It has really caused alot of trouble in my life from college to bills to cleaning house, changing activities, and even doing things that I want to do.....or overdoing things I rather do and not focusing on things that I need to do.

So does this mean that I am basicly screwed as far as exec functioning skills go? I posted this in the parents section because I was hoping that maybe some of the wise minds here might have some ideas of what to do or any information etc etc.

The brain is able to change better when you are younger, but I really think that with practice you can improve those skills when you are older as well. I think learning tricks and tips to working through those will be extremely helpful for you.

This blog was interesting: http://qw88nb88.wordpress.com/2006/10/1 ... paralysis/

There was a WP thread on this as well:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt169772.html


If you need help breaking down specific tasks, let me know and maybe I can help?

thanks I will look them up.

the task that I have the hardest time with is house cleaning. I get so overwhelmed with the mess that I get overstimulated then try to zone out to avoid being overwhelmed....then the mess gets worse and at some point it hits crisis mode and I have to face it. The whole process is so overwhelming to me. The stuff everywhere causes visual sensory overload and my mind shuts down as how to break it down. With the inertia, it seems like an unmovable mountain to clean house.

Mom says I need to get rich and hire a maid 3 days a week.


Jojo

A maid every two weeks could help a lot. You don't have to be rich for that, just comfortable "enough," and choose differently (cheaper car, stuff like that). Bi-weekly maid service is just enough to get me over the hump; give me that, and I am MUCH more likely to sit down and do all the sorting that they can't, keep up with the laundry (they don't do that, either), and so on. It all gets so much easier when the surfaces are at least clean. As one friend of mine pointed out, for some of us paying for occasional maid service is cheaper and more effective than therapy; it IS our therapy.

As for the first question, are we really stuck - I sincerely hope not. At my age, I still hope not. I don't stress too much over it, I get by OK and I have enough strengths that people put up with my weaknesses, but one's got to have hope.

With me, it's been a life time of getting better at it, doing great for a while, then slipping again.

Although I can't say I was ever as bad as my son can be. But he has improved TONS. Right in time to turn 14

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 28 Oct 2011, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am currently reading Smart but Scattered and do not recall any statement that older persons cannot benefit from it, although obviously there was reference to younger persons getting the most benefit and the book is in fact aimed at younger than 14yo's.

A friend of my schizophrenic wife (or should that be ex-wife) told her to break tasks down into smaller components to make that manageable, and I think that is wise advice. As a newly solo dad having to exclusively cope with household tasks for the first time, I am finding it helps to do things differently from before eg do washing and tasks through the week so that there is only cooking to do on the weekend. It's also helping to be insistent that my ASD son keeps his room tidy and puts things back after using them. I am going to formalise jobs for him to do like mowing the lawns, for an allowance. Basically I make sure I complete the chores first. Still, it is surprising how long it takes to complete all the domestic chores for a family.

When I lived in Africa as a kid we had a maid, a cook and a gardener (not at all uncommon at that time and place). But I think it was more trouble than it was worth for my mom having to supervise all these people, and it was no problem for us to leave all that behind when we emigrated (although my mother's copperware has never shone so brightly as it did then!)

I find it bull when I hear people will never learn things when they are past a certain age. I think anyone can change if they work at it. It is harder to change when you are older because you have fallen into your habits and it's hard to break out of them, I think it may have to do with the wiring to the brain. Your mind is still developing when you are a child so it's very easy to teach the child and have them learn. But when they are an adult, it's very hard. Just my guess.

I agree that you are never too old to learn something new. Breaking down overwhelming tasks seems to be the biggest help with my DD. She is currently doing some cognitive behavior therapy and while she needs me to help "outline" the fundamentals of getting started, she is slowly starting to tackle some tasks of her own. We also used the Cogmed program, which helped her, but it is costly and not for everyone (there is a large amount of time necessary to invest in the program to do it properly).

Because I have very good executive function skills, it was important for me to read "Smart but Scattered..." because I didn't understand all that I would need to do to break tasks down for my daughter. I'm wondering if you could have a friend or parent read the book as well and kind of "shadow" you to see how you could break (what seems like) overwhelming tasks into smaller, do-able tasks. If someone could help you break down some of that anxiety, you could have a better starting point.

For example, I set a timer for 10 minutes and tell my kids that they have to look around the *one* room we are in and tidy up for 10 minutes. It can be anything like putting toys in a bin, putting books in a pile, etc. When the 10 minutes are up, we essentially stop and take a break. I put a lot of positives in it, such as pointing out how easy it is to walk around the room and how we can find what we need easier. Sometimes I throw in a "bribe" after - like popcorn and a movie in the family room we just cleaned . I also make things easy(this is for myself), by putting a "cleaning kit" on every floor (disinfecting wipes, glass cleaner, paper towels, sponges, etc.). I take a "see/do" approach whereby I just clean/organize what ever I "see" or touch. Same deal though, I don't spend more than 30 minutes working on cleaning an area. You could try the 10 minute rule for just one corner of a room and see if it works.

In any case, don't be discouraged. Ask for some help - those of us who don't have executive function disorder have no idea about the scope of stress and anxiety that paralyzes those folks who do have the disorder. The great news is that even making small strides will feed your confidence and will make other tasks eventually easier too.

I think you can still do it especially if you have a lot of time to yourself. I was always messy and disorganized growing up, I struggled to improve and at some point as an adult I succeeded. Cooking and cleaning became a zen experience and I enjoyed doing it. However now that I have an autistic child to care for I've regressed quite a bit in that area, I never get help or a day off so I only do the most pressing tasks.

Do what you need to do to make your life easier. Use technology. I once had an excellent memory. My husband called me the human calendar. It has been difficult for me to admit that due to having 5 kids and a scattered husband or perhaps even due to age, (I turned 40 two das ago!) that I truly am losing things in my mind and have started to forget things. I am talking about absolutely drawing a blank about if I turned in a note to a teacher or occassionally completly forgetting a doctor's appointment. It may sound normal to others, but it is absolutely foreign to me to not remember everything. I have finally admitted defeat and have found several phone apps to help me recall everyone's schedule, help me with my shopping list and tasks, etc.

Most likely, you need a plan and then be disciplined about following that plan for a couple of months until it becomes a habit. I happen to be super organized. I taught a class years ago on home organization, but didn't really know how to convey what seems intuitive to me. Upon my research, I stumbled on this site.

http://organizedhome.com/

It has household plans that might be useful to you to help you break the work down in chunks and not get overwhlemed. I think you can change your behaviours, it is like exercise, you have to find a rountine that will work for your life and stick to it. I think this site might help you find a routine as far as housework goes.

We all have exec function issues, with DS being the hardest hit. It seems too big of a task to teach him - ha, that'll help! Actually, we do focus a lot on breaking things down into tiny steps.

For housework, there's a website www.flylady.com which is Cindy of over the top organizing, but she provides clear instructions on how to start, what to do every day and how to do it. One of the best lessons I got from her was to use a timer and work hard at so etching for 15 minutes. If you just do that every day, you will be amazed at the progress you will make.

The other thing we do if something is particularly overwhelming is to just do one small thing at a time. For instance, as I look at my kitchen counter, my one task could be - throw away junk mail. If I just do that today,my kitchen will be less cluttered.

Another thing I once read that I really like is your to do list should have only 3 things on it. When you get sidetracked, look at the list and work on your 3 things. Once they are done, write down 3 more things. a long list will make us feel too overwhelmed, but 3 things - that's pretty easy.

All of this discussion has me dusting off smart but scattered from one of the many piles of books in the family room.

I've had a closer look at the beginning chapters of Smart but Scattered and it is actually right that the book does state that at around age 5 and then pre-teen there is quite an explosion of frontal lobe activity (the part of the brain associated with executive function). What is happening as I vaguely understand it is that the neural pathways are being established and that is why things get easier to do with practice. So it does pay to work on these skills if necessary with younger children and the book is in fact aimed at from young to 14yo's.

That stated the book does also state that frontal lobe development is happening up to 18-20 years old and beyond, so perhaps our just 17yo has a chance yet! This works in with my general understanding that newer studies have shown that eg teenagers and young adult brains are still developing (the reason that teenagers can be prone to risky behavior). Also if you look at people who's brains are damaged and need to re-learn to speak, my understanding is that a completely different part of the brain can take over the function of the destroyed part. So the brain is an amazing mechanism and it is certainly in my view possible (although more difficult, undoubtedly) for an old dog to learn new tricks and for executive function deficits to be addressed (at least in part) in adulthood.

Thank you all for your replies, sorry I been gone...I been hanging out with my brother who likes to give me some time off in taking care of my mom who has severe ptsd and physical problems as well. She can be a handful, but love can overcome alot, one day at a time.

Well looks like I have my homework set out for me!! I will check out these websites and formulate a plan.
I like the 3 chore to do list and the ten minute rule, and if all else fails may have to re-arrange my budget for a maid.
Mom and I have gotten better at laundry in the past year. I put all the dirty clothes in a hamper next to the washing machine and then when either one of us are in there we just throw in a load.
Hanging up the clothes that are done is another story, we have piles of clean clothes all over the room...
I will try the ten minute thing with that. Anything can be done in ten minutes segments right??....well maybe not brain surgery, but most household things anyway.

Mom has as much trouble with cleaning as I do...kinda the blind leading the blind.

I glad that all ya'll think that I can still learn this. In the past it has been a pattern where I try super hard, wear my self out and then fallback into old habits. Sometimes it feels like trying to push back the sea tide. However, I will try to break them down into much smaller segments.
I think that I see the whole of it and my brain just fritz.
But thank you all for your great advice and websites. Thank you for clairifing Solo dad.

I posted this before in the general section and I mostly got a bunch of folks in the same boat as me saying "mee too" While it is great I am not alone, however that does not solve the problem. You parents are the best of both worlds when it comes to solving snarly problems like EFD.

I think more aspies/auties need to seek your wisdom.

Jojo