Morning YIKES!!

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We have an 11 yr old son with Aspergers.

He is taking: Adderall XR 40mg Morning
Depakote DR: 500mg Morning
750mg Bed time
Clonidine .1mg Bed time

He hates getting up in the morning.
Starts yelling & cursing - totally abusive to his brother, his mom & me (dad)

Recently he has added threats of physical abuse or property damage!
He has hit his brother, Pushed his mom & threatened to hit me in the head with large objects!
Last time was Thursday. We called Mobile Response to send out a Crisis Intervention Worker.
They instead, overhearing his yelling & screaming, called the police for us.

He is now in a locked ward of a hospital! This is a sad thing for all of us! I'm very depressed about it!
He is only due to stay 5 to 7 days & They have tweaked his Depakote up to 1000mg at bed time.
The idea the pros have is that he will start behaving better now that he knows he will be removed if he misbehaves.
Morning have always been bad 5 days a week - Weekends are better. His shrink says it's school? That may be or it may be that he doesn't have to get up?

His mom dreads waking him & I dread feeding him every morning - Anyone have any good ideas?

could it be that one of his meds is causing the aggression ?....Depakote left our son tired and lethargic all the time. also slightly irritated

The idea the pros have is that he will start behaving better now that he knows he will be removed if he misbehaves.

This sounds positively medieval to me.

The assumption here is that if he's scared enough he will be a good boy and that indicates that his AS symptoms are something he chooses and can turn off or on when he wants to.

If he were able to turn them off or on by choice, he wouldn't truly have AS, and definitely wouldn't need any medication for it. See, that logic doesn't work.

I'm an AS mom with 2 AS boys and I'll tell you none of us has ever been able to deal with morning. We are all nocturnal, always have been. I've gone through everything - reading books, buying sun spectrum lights, doing routines like getting up at dawn to stand in the sun (let the sun hit your eyes) for 20 minutes, etc. I tried for decades to fit into the daytime world and I failed every single time.

My oldest is holding down a job that starts in the morning, but he's late often. The youngest works in the evening and if he's woke up before noon it's frightening how out of it he is. He's not on any medications either, it's just like he's totally drunk or drugged. He cannot move or function in the morning. Even when something is happening that he really wants to do - like someone he really wants to talk to is on the phone. He can't take the call, can't wake himself to even deal with it. Later in the day he's fine though.

I would think the medication would make that sort of trait many times worse. I also hope you're not sending him the wrong signal as far as calling the cops or putting him away like that - he may be feeling now that you're the enemy and he has no where to turn.

If he's acting out, more than likely it's drugs or something that is deeply bothering him, not that he just chooses to do it and next time he'll do better if he knows he's going to be removed from the home.

When my sons were younger we homeschooled. That was the right choice for us because it fit with our body clocks and the meltdowns didn't happen. Have you considered that?

I recently read this article, you might do some research:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/us/01 ... tml?ref=us
Also, 40mg of Adderal is pretty high.

Any way to try less meds?

Wow...all of those medications are extremely HIGH! I can't believe they are prescribing 1000mg. of Depokote. Sounds to me that all that prescription medication may be causing alot of his problems. I have seen too many doctors in the mental health professions use medication to simply "sedate" a child into sleep rather than resolve the problem that needs to be addressed.

How did your son's "meltdown" get that far out of control that the police needed to intervene? Where is his therapist that needs to oversee his care on a continual basis?

Also, are there any alternative education schools in your area that can give him the more individualized attention he needs... if
only on a temporary basis?

I cannot make any real recommendations regarding his care and treatment as I don't know enough about your situation. If you
need further advice, I would be happy to respond to any PM you send me.

Good luck!

G-d I hope this forum isn't chock full of Tom Cruises! Hehee

Kidding - Thanks for all the replies!!

His full diagnosis is now Aspergers with a side order of Anxiety & Panic Disorder

He was first diagnosed with ADHD then Obstinant/Defiant disorders after being kicked out of 2 pre-schools for not sitting at circle time.
He has been on amphetamines since he was 5.
Removing them makes his school day impossible!

His Psychiatrist is a highly regarded Pediatric Doc working for the Dept of Developmental Disabilities. He also is a highly beloved teacher.
His levels are checked about every 2 weeks by blood test & are still too low he says. The chief Psychiatrist at the hospital (also a a highly regarded Pediatric Psychiatrist) agrees.

He feels better & does better in school with his meds.

You're arguing that the doctors are great and the meds are right and all is fine, but it clearly is not fine if the police were called on an 11 year old and he's now locked in a hospital ward. Do you see those two things are contradictory?

i'm not saying to remove all meds....lord knows we practice better living through medication around here !.....i just know that some meds we've tried actually increased aggression in our son. i know how frightening it can be to feel like your child is totally out of control and needs to be hospitalized......very scary indeed....i'd ask the doctors about adverse side effects of the meds he's currently on, and possibly explore new meds that would curb the aggression more effectively

All of your replies are greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!

On where is the support: Right now he has a counselor & A Dr. of psychology coming to the house in the evening both once a week.
Sees his Psychiatrist once a month. Is in main stream middle school but, has an aide & is in a program for Aspergers kids. Home room & Socialization in stead of foreign language. If only we could have someone get him ready for school every day!

His weight is climbing fast from the Depokote. He's now at 157lbs.!

I have been asking if it was time to give up a Depokote over & over & am told to what till it gets to serum level.

We have tried: Focalin, Strattera, Abilify, Buspirone & Ritalin.

He still needs help with his socks ever morning! I made him 2 toaster waffles with honey - peanut butter & banana and he yelled at me "All we get is toaster waffles today" The day he got taken away he came down the steps saying his mother was mean to him. I told him "let's have a good morning & I'll drop his earlier 2 day ban of puter & games & then told him I was making him a surprise breakfast" He started yelling What's the surprise & What's for breakfast over & over. It was sausage, egg & cheese on a Thomas' English Muffin! He refused to take his meds or eat. Left the table & went up to his room. Missed the school bus & went mad with anger - 4 letter words, stomping & slaming doors. We can't live like this day after day! I know from Aspergers play groups he's been in that all the parents there had problems in the morning. There must be something that works? G-d I hope so!

all depakote ever did for my son was change his weight and make him more lethargic than when we started....we too were told to wait until his levels were at the therapeutic level....we did, and still no improvement...........currently son is on seroquel, wellbutrin and prozac. he started taking the seroquel in the a.m., but we found that it still wasn't helping his sleep. the doc then changed it to be a bedtime med. that has worked much better here........now that i think of it, son was taking the depakote in the a.m.,not the pm....maybe a change of time for taking his meds would work ? ask the doc...

I want to tell you that the past year was hell for us as we ended up having our our then 16 year son locked up in a pediatric psychiatric ward as well. It was scary for everyone but due to his age, he was able to realize that he is not alone in his struggle. It has been a blessing in disguise as he has seen many other children that have the same problems as he does. He has been attending school there as an out patient and for the first time ever he feels like one of the crowd. He can see everyone else's shortcomings as well as his own and has gotten the counselling and support he needed. he no longer cuts himself and accepts himself. Our concern is that his fixations are with the negative--war, killing, serial killers etc. So we are working hard to show him that "justice" can be served without vigilantism........he wants to kill every bully and set the world free. We are not out of the woods but it is a start. As "medeival as it may appear to many, pleasetake heart that our children are individuals and what works for one does not for everyone. Check out the program and explain to him that this is not punishment, that this option is set up so that he can feel better soon. There is light at the end of the tunnel but not without pain.
Our son would deal with early mornings the same way we all do at home; quiet and grouchy but neverhad any problems until we moved and the changed was very hard to deal with for him. He was 16 when he had hs first experience with meds. He is on Clondine and seroquel and that has really helped as he now sleeps through the night. Mornings are touch and go but have gotten better since we cut the doses down. Since he is still attending the school program through the hospital, they are understanding and supportive and there is little stress in the morning. He realizes that not everyone is that way and really tries to comply with being woken up. They really can't function with neds so early. have you tried it? you and I would be out for days and not very pleasant either.
What ever steps you decide to take I wish you and your family much strength as it is heartbreaking to see what our children must endure.......it really is not for the weak. If I can suggest that you look for a reputable child psychologist that does Cognitive Behavioural theraphy and Jungian symbolism you will be glad you did as it seems to be quiet effective for our AS children.
Good luck

Just want to say I kow what it's like - my 9.y.o. son was put in a locked psychiatric ward a year ago - he had terrible rages at bed time every night. They were quite horrific, and we had to call for outside help, too. It was living hell!

It turned out his aggression was caused by epilepsy, so out of that horrible experience, came a lot of good. When he was changed from anti-psychotics to ritalin and epilepsy medication, his behaviour changed very quickly. We were very lucky to "stumble" upon what his real problem was - epilepsy.

This must be an absolutely awfull experience for you. But things do get better, my son is doing very well now, so hang in there!