Discipline: What is acceptable?

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I have to qualify myself and my questions. I am not diagnosed, but strongly feel that I have AS. I don't have children. As a child I was indifferent of playing with other kids, was busy in my own little world exploring patterns and textures in my environment, didn't use imaginative play, had narrow interests, was upset by change, started having some anxiety issues around 4 years old, etc. etc. I didn't, however, have anger or behavioral problems. I never once threw a tantrum and, according to my mom, was mostly happy and never outwardly angry, I internalized.

My parents were disciplinarians, they very much controlled my sister's and my behavior. When my sister (who is older) was an infant and cried until she was picked up, they put her in her crib, shut the door to her room, and let her cry herself to sleep. After a few nights of not picking her up, she didn't cry anymore. Dad and mom were both trained as teachers, and learned in college that children thrive with clear, consistent boundaries and rules. From infancy I knew the rules, what was permitted, what was not, and that there were unpleasant consequences (spankings) for "bad" behavior. Some of my parent's friends thought they were too hard on me, but by the time I was three I could sit through dinner at a restaurant and people would come up to our table and say how well behaved my sister and I were. The only times I remember acting up were the two times I ever had baby sitters, and did I ever test the boundaries then (and broke family heirlooms).

My questions are:

Can strict, vigilant, consistent discipline, from infancy, decrease behavioral problems in ASD children?

Does discipline or innate temperament have more influence on how children behave?

What do you feel is an acceptable level of discipline?

Z

Lawsie...I have no children of my own (but boy did I marry into a housefull...

AS people like boundaries and rules (at least I did). While l'il bro was constantly getting in the @#$...I was making sure I didn't get caught...

It depends on the situation. One horror story I keep hearing is a state organization (called something different in each state, but roughly) Social Services. They supposedly have the right to take your kids for things like spanking in public, etc. I dunno.

It's pretty situational. The same Disciplinary actions work (or doesn't) even within siblings. Enough discipline that they don't do things to hurt themselves, enough looseness that they develop some independence, etc. It's really hard to quantify...

I can only speak for my own experience.

My parents did right in teaching me good manners, to say "please" and "thank you" and call adults "Mr" or "Mrs" and be generally respectful.

But they were too hard on me, and didn't allow me to have feelings or opinions or preferences of my own. They (and a certain babysitter) made me cry myself to sleep and withheld affection from me. My mother in particular had a very specific idea of what she wanted in a daughter (I was adopted), and it was always painfully obvious that I didn't fit her image, and she resented it. And I resented her. I felt like a handbag that inconveniently clashed with her wardrobe.

I find that I'm a fairly strict parent, in most respects, because it's all I know. But I'm nowhere near as strict as my parents were, and don't spank/hit my son the way my parents did with me and my brother. I do yell too much, but again, not nearly as much as was done to me. I'm also not as cold as my mother was.

OTOH, my parents could be extremely inconsistent at times and spoiled us a bit, when we were very young. I feel I am more consistent with my son and focus less on material things than my parents did with me.

And my mother also told us to "grow up" and "act like an adult and I'll treat you like one," but she not only didn't teach us how to do for ourselves "in the world" but actively discouraged us from learning to become independent from her. I think it's extremely important for parents to teach their children to be as independent as possible/practical - I am not so much raising a child as raising a future adult. I wish more parents felt that way.

But the short answer to your question is, of course consistent, active parenting will help ALL children, including those with AS. Inconsistent, indulgent, lazy parenting will generally be harmful to ALL children, NT and those with AS et al.

ETA: But don't forget to view each of your children as an individual human being. Each one is different. It's one thing to be consistent, it's another to be RIGID. Flexibility, compassion, and a healthy sense of humor is VITAL, imo.

Last edited by sinagua on 02 Apr 2008, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, this was totally me and my little brother! hehe

I got really good at not getting caught.

Probably not. Aspies need to know why there is a rule before they're going to obey. Punishing them without explaining the why will likely only serve to cause more behavioral problems and hatred towards you.


And also because they take things literally they may not understand the rule you are disciplining them for. And if they don't understand what the rule is, they aren't going to be able to follow it.

However their should be consistenciy in discipline. Not disciplining a child for one thing that you have disciplined him in the past for will confuse him just as much as disciplining him for something like brushing his teeth before bed

There needs to be very clear and consistant boundaries and limits, that I will agree on. But there also needs to be a balance to. I was very strict with my children, but I believed in making sure my praises were alot more frequent and alot more dramatic then my criticisms. As for allowing babies to cry.....how old? And was your sister checked on to make sure she was ok? My pediatrician insisted I take my time going to my daughter when she was 2 1/2 months old, he'd say wait 5 min first, then go to her, next time wait 10, then 15 and so on, she did eventually sooth herself to sleep. That taught her some problem solving at 2 1/2 months of age. Who'd thought? I think we have to look at what is age appropriate, and what is a childs skill level to. But spanking a baby, I'd say thats not ok.

I can relate - because my sister was a little older, I observed the things she did that got her into trouble and avoided those things.

Z

That is distressing to hear. I had an adopted cousin who was essentially discarded (sent to military school) by an aunt after she and my uncle divorced.



I agree.

Z

I pretty much knew the rules, and the why of the rules, particularly because my parents were conservative Christians and we regularly attended church. The rules came from God through my parents - of course one of those rules is "honor thy father and mother." I do think that my sister experienced discipline in different ways than I did. She is more NT than I am, and we have different temperaments. I was more docile than she, she remembers our mother as being more harsh than I remember and they didn't get along for several years.

Funny thing, I was always ready for bedtime (I begged to [/i]go[i] to bed if we were at someone's house visiting late), didn't complain about baths, brushing teeth, etc. because I KNEW complaining wasn't tolerated by my parents.

Z

I can't remember how much I was praised vrs. criticized. Often, when I was younger, the discipline was sometimes a physical restraining/holding - there wasn't criticism involved with that.

The crying thing with my sister happened when she was a few weeks old. My parents being new parents, were very distressed when she cried and cried. They took her to the pediatrician and he asked, "What does she do when you pick her up." They said, "She stops." The doctor said, "She's learning." Because she was healthy and the doctor said it was OK, they put her down for the night and let her cry herself out. It took less than a week for for her to learn that crying didn't get her extra attention. They didn't spank her as an infant.

Z

Behavioral problems are common in ASD children and I tire of the suggestion that somehow the parents failed to discipline their children and that's why they act that way.

Even Temple Grandin says she was lucky to have been raised as a child in the 50's when strict, disciplinarian parenting was the norm.

My dad was strict, my mom did her best to undermine everything he did and was WAY too lenient with me and my 5 siblings. MY husband's parents were always very strict and consistent. The inconsistency of my parents' discipline led to some extreme behavior in most of their children. We learned at an early age that we could manipulate Mom and we could play our parents against each other.

I have 4 kids and we are very strict by current parenting trends. We insist on cleanliness, respect, order, and manners(for the most part) etc. My 3 older children are VERY well behaved in public- one has AS and one has mental retardation with AS symptoms. The other has sensory integration issues and is VERY social and NT. They've been able to behave in restaurants since they were 2-3 years old. It is common for a server to comment how well-behaved our kids are and how they wish all kids were like them. LOL! MY grandmother had my family over for dinner when my older 3 were 7, 3, and 2 and told us that it's too bad my uncle's kids(9,7,4) could not behave as well as my kids.

Most people would think we're too strict or too hard on the kids, especially our oldest. My sister thinks we're too hard on them. I think we're teaching them to be responsible. That's our job, to raise them to be responsible adults some day.

Consistent, clear rules and expectations make children feel more secure in their environment. Children who feel secure will not have as many behavioral problems. This is especially true for kids on the spectrum who seem to thrive best with order and routine.

*post content deleted by lau*

Mods? I think "Your" needs some assistance finding his/her way out....

for those of us who struggle with kids who have discipline/behavior issues, i just want to remind us that their behavior is not our fault. Sometimes we can help them to become better behaved, but sometimes we cannot. i do not find authoritarian households to be an effective, nurturing environment for anyone ( ie; you do what i say because i'm the parent).........i think there needs to be a balance . kids need to feel safe & loved. it's our job to help them feel that way.

I agree that strict disciplinarianism is not the way to go. I was raised to behave well, but I always had a knot in my stomach and was a very nervous kid. I heard "do as I say, not as I do" SO many times - I can't believe any parent thinks that one actually works. I was screamed at, "spanked" with a belt/paddle/whatever was handy, called vile names, told I was "nothing special," and told that my feelings were not "real."

I was also raised in the biggest house in our neighborhood, and was (until my adoptive parents' divorce) a member of the local Country Club. My mother was, at various times, a public school teacher (high school) and a social worker in child welfare. She was a social worker during the worst years of my abuse at the hands of her alcoholic second husband (not sexual - so no one cared, isn't that interesting?). I told anyone who would listen what was happening in my house. No one intervened, ever.

My point is, you never can tell what goes on behind closed doors, even with people who fancy themselves "pillars of the community" etc.

Kids do need to feel safe and loved. Best if they can feel that way AT HOME. I never did, and struggle to this day because of it. I think it triggered a lot of emotional problems for me for which I am still in treatment and on medication. I am now estranged from pretty much my entire family. They consider me a "trouble maker" because I dared to speak out/complain.

Don't spoil your kids rotten, but don't be a drill sergeant, either. Listen to your kids when they say they're hurting or frightened. And don't stand by while someone else abuses them in the name of "discipline." I am actually angrier at my mother for allowing my step-dad to abuse me/us than I am for him for actually DOING it. I hear this is a fairly typical reaction, among abused children.

I'll shut up now. Obviously, this is a very tender subject for me. AS kids definitely need more patience, flexibility, humor, and understanding than the average child. I wish I'd received more of it, but they just thought I was bright but defiant and needed "a strong hand".