Family debate on technique

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First, I should mention that I'm Aspergers, and my daughter might be. I should also mention that it seems to happen to the first born in our family, and our family's Aspergers seem to be a unqiue blend of Aspie symptoms similar through us.

So I come home from the grocery store, and I had bought a bag of Dum Dum Pops, the first bag in a long while. My two year old, who loves them, is excited and can't wait to have one. But, like any two year old, she wants to lick it a couple times and then throw it away and grab a new one. We go through this for like four suckers, and then I put up the bag on the top shelf in the pantry. She is upset and would like to have more. So, she grabs this big tub (usually used for toys, but she had dumped it earlier in the day and I have yet to pick them up) to drag the tub into the panty to use it as a step stool. Judging her height and the height of the tub, she would only be a little over half way to the suckers on the shelf. Also, there's a trash bag full of trash in her way (husband's job to take out trash, so I'll take it out later). So I let her try to get them because she's content with working at it as the same as having it. I doubt she'll get to them, but if she were to attempt it for long enough, I'd probably give her one just for trying. I don't want to teach her bad things, but shoot, that's how street smarts is formed...stealing cookies from that cookie jar. My thing also is that I really think she's going to be Aspergers, but it's too young to tell, but I see it already. I'm hoping it's just that she's two and I'm reading into it too much, but I'm trying to parent the way I would if she were Aspergers.

My husband, on the other hand, thinks I'm nuts for letting her try to get to the lollypops. Instead, he yells at her to leave the pantry, and she drags the tub out of the pantry and throws it across the kitchen (yeah, she's my little Hercules), and then she breaks down in tears, so then he and his sister proceed to make fun of her as she cries by making the same crying noises and laughing about it while acting like it's so stupid that she's crying. I calm her down, and then proceed here to complain about it because I'm not certain whose approach is better, and I hate it when my husband and his sister start talking about me in Spanish and team up against me, so I needed to escape that environment as well. So, as I'm typing, she attempted to get the suckers again, so he stuck her in time out in her bed (which I don't do...I stick her in her bed when she's too upset where a minute hug isn't enough to calm her down and then I call it "chillifying herself" as more an attitude adjustment than a punishment, and try to save time outs for the mommy when the mommy is frustrated). I really don't believe in discipline because it didn't work on me, and it's not working on my nephew. What works for us is logical talks and nurturing type parenting. I also don't like the idea of punishment as much as consequences. I'd rather her get a tummy ache from too much candy than to spank her for eating it. I don't know if it's Aspie in general or if it's just my family's version of it, but all the Aspies in my family doesn't take to correction too well. We just don't see other people in having enough credibility to take their word on things and we like to learn them for ourselves. Mind you also, she's left her time out early about 7 times with him, and since then gotten spanked for it. I don't know if she's trying to prove a point that she's in charge of her life the way I did when I was young, or if she just figured that since her attitude changed, she was allowed out.

I don't know, but I would seriously value your guys opinions. I know the worse thing here is that my husband and I are not consistent, but it's because we don't agree. Instead of trying to find an agreement, he pretends to agree with me and then does the opposite. So, advice would be helpful too. Thank you.

It's really tricky and so frustrating when parents don't agree on how to parent...and of course, super confusing for the kids. At times when my DH and I have disagreed, we have done things like read parenting books together (thereby employing a 3rd party method) or stick with one persons method for a certain amount of time, before trying the other persons and take note of what works better for future reference.

That being said, I completely disagree with spanking or physical punishment of any kind. I think it is unnecessary, damaging, doesn't actually teach the child anything and can quickly turn into abuse. If you have already talked to your husband seriously about stopping this, and he isn't listening, can you take him to talk to a pediatrician, counsellor, pastor etc. about it that he will listen too? Spanking is just not OK.

We have tried a variety of methods of reward/punishments over the years (other than corporal punishment), and nothing works better than being really clear and consistent with expectations and logical with consequences, and very loving and supportive always. It does seem that AS kids respond better to logic and respectful treatment, than to arbitrary punishments or rewards.

I wouldn't let a 2 year old sicken herself on candy to learn a lesson, maybe a 7-10 year old could learn from that experience and make better choices in the future, but I don't think a 2 year old is ready to generalize a tummy ache into future behaviour. I think putting the candy where she couldn't reach them, telling her "no more candy" in a firm voice and then ignoring her attempts to get at the candy unless it grew dangerous, was perfectly fine. She is after all, only 2. But that's just one opinion from another parent, who doesn't know anything more than you do.

There are some great parenting books out there. On of my favourites when my sons were really little was called "Becoming the Parent You want to Be" (has general ideas about common parenting issues that would apply for AS or NT). Good luck, you sound like a very caring parent.

Well, I have to say personally I'd side with your husband over you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with putting your daughter in a time out.

Parenting is a joint decision, you need to be in line with each other. I suggest you seek couples or parenting therapy together so you have a mediator who can come up with ideas you can both agree on.

And why do you live with your sister-in-law? If it's bothering you that she's living with you, can't you set up a time table for kicking her out?

Maybe I missed a bit.

Did anyone actually tell her that she was not allowed any more?

If she has defied you and gone after the sweets anyway then she should be in trouble.

If not then it is up to her to figure out what is going on. "Hmm everyone else has had enough but I haven't."

If you have decided that she could have some more then it is up to you and your husband to work it out.
No need for shouting at a little girl at all.

Do you ever think of the sister as 'the witch'?

Excellent point. Was she told she wasn't allowed any more?

And, then, before she got yelled out by your husband, was she told that she could not move the tub into the pantry and try to reach the candy?

These points are CRUCIAL, and the heart of why I disagree with your husband's approach. Children need clear rules and, often, clear explanations that rule A applies in this particular situation and, a result, the child must do X. It sounds like he's using far too much of the "I yelled at you not to do it, so you can't do it." I found that approach completely unsuccessful with both my kids. Especially at 2, the instruction a child absorbs is the one made calmly face to face; not the one shouted from another room.

You and your husband MUST get on the same page about these things. If you had decided to allow her to try to climb, you should stand up for that decision and not ALLOW him to contradict it. Whatever decision comes first - allow or not - gets followed. If he tells your daughter that she can't do something and you would have allowed it, you as well stick up for that decision. It is just going to confuse her to have parents voiding each others' calls.

Now, there are times I've allowed something that upsets my husband, and I've retracted because of that. But retraction involves a conversation with the child, explaining why the rule is now being changed, and giving a buffer for compliance. An example might be, "sweetie, I know I was letting you climb, but daddy has pointed out a danger that I hadn't thought of, and I realize he is right, so why don't I hold onto the bucket for a minute while you give it one last try and then I expect you to come down and not try again."

It all does get tricky, especially when it sounds you have a spouse who doesn't even TRY to stay consistent with you. Perhaps he doesn't think it's necessary, but it IS.

Everyone has written thoughtful posts, and I can see both sides. It's just a matter of getting on the same page.

But there is one thing I would add: please get your husband not to tease or make fun of your daughter, especially if the older child is also making fun. He's using bullying behavior and that's the last thing anyone needs, and your oldest doesn't need to learn it either. It should not be tolerated, no matter who is doing it. It's especially cruel if coming from a parent.

Good luck.

She is two years old, reasoning won't work. You have something she wants. You can start to help shape her behavior. I would probably limit it to one lolly per day max. I would suggest that you teach her to put it on a plate when she is done with it, so she can come back to it later.

You and your hubby have a problem in that you have different views on how to deal with the issue.
That needs to be corrected. The stress you are feeling can lead to depression in one or both of you.
I suspect that the spankings are a way to get rid of a bit of the stress. (im talking personal experience here)

I wish you both the best of luck on getting your acts together.

Thank you all for your responses. I'm sorry it's been a few days since I posted. I've been pretty busy and then Superbowl Sunday...GO STEELERS.

Anyway, I did tell my daughter no more lollypops. I even warned her before that happened. After her 3rd one, I said one more then the lolly's are going up. Then she wanted one more and then I said, that's your last one, that's it, the lolly's are now going up. I also said she could have more tomorrow type thing, and I'm thinking she's understanding that one now because we've had that issue many times before with candy (especially chocolate, but she calls chocolate bars cookies). I also really try to make 6pm the cut off time for candy and anything with caffeine (like chocolate) and sugar. I also do break that rule for special occasions, and I know people will disagree with that one, but hey, I've been a rule breaker all my life so it makes sense I can't even follow my own rules

Now my problem getting on the same page with my husband is two part. First, my husband is pretty young, and I don't think he was ready to be a dad. Nobody ever really is ready, but I can see him trying very hard to avoid responsibilities. Now he does work and holds a steady job, but I think it's mainly because work is a good escape from the house. His personality isn't always one to stay home a lot anyway. He feels trapped when he's in the house. He was raised in Puerto Rico with no air conditioning and very limited cable, so he was outside more than in, sleep included. Right there should explain what I'm up against kinda. Second, his parents are old school when it comes to discipline. Same with my sister and best friend. My mother, of all people, is the only one on the same page as me, and I think she really is rather than just agreeing with to avoid arguments because she has the same arguments I have with my husband on my kids with my sister on my sister's kids. Our main phrase lately has been to "pick your battles." My problem with this though is that no doctor, book, or anyone shy of God coming down in the form of a burning bush is going to trump the credibility my in-laws have with my husband. So I'm really stuck and I'm not sure how to approach it. I've tried the whole communication thing, and he acts like we find some agreement, but then when in action, it's like our conversation never took place. Even before we had kids, I explained to him that I was against spankings on kids. I even have a long story on it comparing me and my sister growing up (I got lectures cause I was willing to listen to them, but since she wasn't, she was constantly spanked and grounded...depending on age).

For the record, I never let my daughter eat enough candy to find out the hard way on the tummy ache yet. I plan on saving that for maybe 10 years down the road. It was more of an example thing to distinguish between punishment and consequences. I didn't want anyone to think I was totally psycho here.

But I am glad a lot of people agreed with me on the parts where I stand. I kinda always thought what I stood for spoke for itself, and I don't know how or why some people believe in this whole spank the kids all the time thing. Yeah, I believe spankings work, but you save it for when it is really necessary. My husband, sister, and best friend...they are the type of parents who expect their kids to live around them, whereas I'm the type of parent who schedules my life around my kids. I think that's the difference here. The parents that spank all the time, yell a lot, are also usually the type who believe kids need to be on a schedule, say no a lot because everything is off limits, and set all the rules to benefit the life and structure of the parent. Parents like me are the opposite whereas the rules are set to benefit the child, and since my whole life evolves around my kids, so do all my decisions like the way I parent. Unlike all those people in my life who love to spank and yell, I look at their parenting style and really consider it whereas they don't give my style a chance. They are also more critical of me as a person than I am of them, which annoys the hell out of me...especially when they are so wrong on so much.

Yes to the person who says this stuff leads to depression. Yes I am very depressed. It's not just my husband's parenting that is depressing. It's also the fact that he doesn't help out around the house, and he treats me like most NT's treat Aspies (ignore me most of the time, make fun of me some of the time, and leave me out of everything). What's worse, he thinks there's nothing wrong with it. Like one week, he said "We all got to see this movie." So the next week, he was leaving early for band practice, and like any wife with a right mind, I want to know why he's leaving so early. He got frustrated immediately with my questions. He's like so my sister and I could watch that movie that I've been saying we should do all week. Then I'm like, no you said we all should go watch that movie, including me, and there's a big difference between your sister and you going to a movie without me than there is with me. So they didn't go see the movie because the wicked witch me argued about it. So then the following week, my friend wants to do a girls night out, and I ask the husband if he'd watch the kids. Mind you, it's been a month since I went anywhere besides Walmart or McDonalds without the kids. Then, he's like, well if I let you go out with your friends, you have to let me and my sister go see a movie. Then I'm like, first of all, it wasn't about you guys not seeing a movie as much as not inviting me to join you in advance where we could get a babysitter, and second of all, you don't want to go blow for blow with me or you'll never get to go out. Then he was mad like I wasn't being fair. So yeah, that's depressing, but at least I got friends right? Wrong. My best friend hates the way I parent because I don't yell and spank, and that's just aweful that I refuse to discipline. And since my house is a mess everytime she comes by (which is rare) cause I'm the only one cleaning it and cleaning after 2 adults and 2 toddlers in addition to myself, she just thinks that's so aweful that she doesn't want to hang out with me as much. When we talk on the phone, it's only about her life, not mine. When we hang out, it's on her terms. I've been begging for a girls night out since June. We had one recently only because she thought her husband might be cheating on her (which he wasn't). On top of it, there's a bunch of small stuff that just keeps building and building. My sister and I are getting closer, but I am still the older sister and the one to take care of her, so it's usually all about her (and it's most important to her that everything revolves around her). My mom has distanced herself more emotionally to me in her attempt to get back at me for arguing that's she's overly critical (which she was being that way), and I'm still kinda upset that she never watches my kids but always watches my sister's kids (like once a week with my sister's kids compared to twice watching mine since I've had them, so over 2 years). I swear at this point in my life, if I had the money, I would take my kids and disappear from everyone. Maybe even leave the country. My kids and I love the Sound of Music, so maybe Austria might be a good place. Do they speak English or French there? Does anyone know?

And about the sister in law, she was supposed to leave last weekend. She found a job in another state, so she's going to move in with family there. But because of weather, we are going to handle it this weekend instead. I'm kinda happier it worked that way cause financially (since we'd be paying for all the gas and rental car and any other expenses) we're better off this week as I just paid for some car repairs. I really don't want to close my doors to family, but at the same time, I need to watch out for my kids and myself. At this point, if my husband has any other family members that want to stay with us, I will probably respond with after you sign the divorce papers. I'm probably going to be closing the doors to my family as well since if I wanted to leave my husband right now, I'd have no where to go, so if they are in that position, then they can just as equally have no where to go (except kids...if any family kids under 18 need to move in cause they are sick of all the spankings and yelling, they are more than welcome to it).

Anyway, I'm sorry this is so long. I'm so frustrated with life right now, and what's worse, strangers on the internet are offering more to me than the people who supposedly love me. It's really nice to be able to tell a story here. I can't get many of these stories in on phone conversations with my friends, so it's all just building inside with no release. I guess the only thing I can do is set some long term goals, work to accomplish them, and if the husband can't get on the same page by then, he'll have to do his thing on visitation cause this state is very friendly about giving mom custody.

The only other options I can think of at this point are very irrational. I've already mentioned leaving the country, which fortunately, I'm too poor to do. The other one which I am very capable of, and probably will do as I'm trying to work on those long term goals, is becoming an alcoholic. Seriously, I've been smoking cigarettes for the last 18 years, so I will probably die of lung cancer long before liver failure. And this is what most depressed housewives do, like my mother in law and my grandma. You don't get drunk where you can't function, but you just get a nice buzz and keep it going all day. You pick a time when you are allowed to start drinking (my grandma's time was noon, and my mother in law seems to average 3pm). Since the only beer I like is good dark warm beer, I'd probably be a red wine drinker, and that's even healthy. Alcohol is much healthier than SSRI's, and a doctor would RX me an SSRI to deal with depression, so I could just consider it self medicating with the all natural home remedy. The more I think about it, I do drink too much Diet Coke (that's all I drink), and red wine is probably healthier than that even. I tried switching to tea, but it makes me nauseous. Same with juice. About the only other drink I can handle is water, and that's just only nice when I'm actually thirsty.

Anyway, thank you all for your responses. I do feel much more confident now in the way I approach things. Oh yeah, and no, my husband did not attempt to ask nicely on the climbing for the lolly's. And, kharma has it, my daughter was able to climb up the next day and steal all my chocolate covered marshmellows, but I found her stashing spot with them, so I did get them back. I did also eat them all in that day. Again though, thank you.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I think that is what you need most.

And second, a firm reminder that self-medicating with alcohol will only make things worse, and is no answer at all, so don't for a second consider that route. Want your husband's family to take your daughter away from you and raise her all wrong? Then hand them the key by allowing them to claim you are an alcoholic. See how totally disastrous that would be? Good. Wipe the thought forever from your list of options.

You do have problems that go far beyond a difference in opinion on how to raise your daughter, and I am so sorry to hear that. One step at a time means you will have to deal with the issues in your marriage first, before you have a lot of hope of teaching him to be a better father.

And, while there are people who raise great kids using physical discipline, they actually know to give fair warning, make sure the child understands what is and isn't a rule, and apply clarity and consistency BEFORE they use any punishment. If those around you haven't learned THAT lesson, they have no idea what "discipline" means, and aren't using it effectively, it wouldn't matter if they hit, yelled, used time outs or what. The consequence is far less important than the clarity and consistency. Number one rule of parenting: consistency, consistency and consistency. We can debate all day about spanking v. not, but EVERY SINGLE expert will repeat the line about CONSISTENCY and also CLARITY.

When you have a special needs child, those rules apply in double time, and the CLARITY gets more complicated and more important. Assume less, explain more, and simplify.

I remember before I had my first child sitting at a party when my friend's very energetic little boy tried to amuse himself. Soon 5 different relatives were providing 5 different sets of instructions and rules about everything he could not do. I watched that boy fall into utter confusion and give up trying to follow any of the instructions which, of course, resulted in more no's and more confusion. I pulled him aside and condensed it all into one rule, and stayed with him until he was calm and I knew he understood the rule. THAT solved the problem.

Perhaps you can find some parenting books by well known conservative experts (read through before making a choice) and leave them around the house. Maybe those around you can finally get a clue. Maybe they will respect those authors, and I know they pretty much all say the same things, with the only difference being whether a spanking is an acceptable form of punishment or not (which I personally don't think it is, but once you get into that the more important lessons have about zero opportunity of ever being heard). At least get them all to learn clarity, calmness of voice, and consistency. That would be a giant step in the right direction.

And, then, find yourself some new friends. Ones that share your viewpoints. Most women do. You really, really, REALLY need to take care of yourself. That is loud and clear in your post. And I am so sorry you are in that position, to be facing so much, and I wish there was more I could do. Playgroups, mommy clubs and the like are probably the best place to start.

Tantybi , my hart goes out to you. Your going through alot.

You wrote that you want to divorce your husband? I think that is a good idea becuse it sounds like he is treating you very badly.

I also think spanking kids is horrible. I was abused as a child and that is how it started. It got worse to so if you leave take your kids for there safty!

You may need proof that he is spanking them in cort so if you can tape him doing it then it will prove he is abusing them. And make shure you don't agree with him when he does it because that will make you look as bad as he does.


Dont drink, You should think of your kids. They need you more then ever.

I can see you have a kind hart and you'r a strong person . You can make it through this I know you can!

Pm me any time you want. I am always willing to be a sholder to cry on.

I agree about the teasing. People are entitled to cry if they feel like it. The key is to not let the crying influence your decision making. Never give way just because the child cries about not getting her way.

But she should be allowed to cry if she is upset. That's what toddlers do. He's only teaching both children that there are times when it is permissible to humiliate others.

I once got a nasty remark from an old lady in a store because my son was screaming for a toy. He was about that same age at the time. What the wicked old cow didn't recognize is that he was not actually getting the toy. He could cry about it until she and any friends she might have got home and he still would not get the toy. But he was entitled to give it a try. Mind you, if the tantrum went on long enough, I might be sharp with him, but I wouldn't punish him for crying. Send him to his room until he was done having his fit, yes (once we got home anyway).

I'd recommend the book Kids Are from Jupiter if I thought you'd both read it, but I suspect any guy who thinks it okay to mock a toddler might also be of the opinion that he already knows what he's doing. Give him a chance, though. Offer. The book does have a lot of basic insights into kid reasoning, but is not clinical. The author is a child psychologist, but also a father.

Your story reflects mine in many ways.
I was that evil clueless depressed husband.
You make it sound like you were looking at me, when you described it.

IMHO based on the things you said, I would suggest to you that he is an ASPIE, and in a state of depression. You need to do something about this.

In my case, I had a loving supportive wife, that put up with me and said "Dear, you need to go see the doctor. I am pretty sure, you are depressed" Me, having a depressed mind was unable to under stand this. It took her three years, but I finally went.

Antidepressants turned my life around.

What can you do?

Most governments are going Marxist, so contact them and see what kind of support they have.

o Health Care?
o Respite Care?

Some Doctors do a percentage of free care. It can't hurt to ask.

Are there Churches in your area that help provide services?


Turn your mind away from the spiral of depressing thoughts, and toward Positive ideas that can help you climb out of the mess.

You need to fix yourself first, so that you can help the others.