Verbal abusive 14 yr old Apie w/ADDH toward mom, but not dad

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tigerlady
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19 Jan 2009, 1:24 pm

Help, Any ideas to help my son control and improve his attitude towards me! I am an yeller, but have cut back alot. He believes that he can tell me what to do! He will not listen most of the time and except me to do what he tells me. He rarely does what I ask him to do. He will do everything dad tells him to do. I am the enforcer and dad is not!



tigerlady
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19 Jan 2009, 1:43 pm

I would like to add that he gets along well wth other adults, teachers and some classmates. Seem to vent on me! I get many compliments on his behavior in public. He is very smart and I am very concerned about this new behavior!
Any sugestion?



demeus
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19 Jan 2009, 1:47 pm

Wow, sounds like you have a teenager in your house <SARCASM>. The first thing you need to do is to get his father to work with you (one united front). Right now, there are 2 fronts and any teenager will use the divide and conquer method to get whatever they want and it sounds like your son is using that method very well to his advantage. Now, I do not know if you are married or not. If you are married, then talk to you husband first and explain to him why this united front is needed and why he must back you up. If you are divorced, either talk to the father or in a worse case scenario, let your son live with his father for a while where you are not the enforcer and let the father see what the reality is.

As for the behavior, I assume your son sees a psychologist and would talk to that person too in order to see if they may have any input.

Hang in there, the teen years are rough



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19 Jan 2009, 1:48 pm

My son is younger than yours and he has very little control over his mouth. I consistently set limitations for him. If he tells me to "shut up", he gets sent to his room. He actually hates to go there. Every "shut up" gets disciplined. I was able to eliminate physical aggression the same way (over a year ago). The verbal stuff is getting better, but he's still a wild man in that regard.

For a 14-yr-old, I would take away computer and internet time.



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19 Jan 2009, 1:53 pm

I found the book, "Explosive Child: A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children" by Ross Greene to be extremely helpful...but my sons are only just turning 9 right now, still I don't think there's an age limit on the techniques used in the book. It's all about communicating well, and teaching your child to make compromises and actively work on solving problems with you.

The yelling may be a big part of the problem. My sons absolutely cannot stand raised voices, and yelling at them is the quickest way to get them to completely stop listening.

And if you are the "enforcer" it's probably pretty natural that most of the angst would be directed at you. My sons already have a tendency to blame mom for everything. I am a safe person for them to get mad at, and the one who usually has to go head to head with them in all the small everyday conflicts, but the book I mentioned above is helping us to work more as a team, and my husband has been stepping up a lot more during times of stress too. Can your hubby take over as "enforcer" a bit, so that you can just work on cultivating your relationship with your son for awhile?



tigerlady
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19 Jan 2009, 2:39 pm

My husband seem to think that I should be able to handle it on my own. His reasoning is that he is the one, that is employed and I am not! I use to work, and then did it all. I am a home manger( housewife). He has stepped in on an occasion.
I intend to talk to him about helping out!My son does see a therapist!
I have taken way, his special things, computers, etc. and he doesn't care! I will get that book too!
Thanks to all!



ster
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19 Jan 2009, 2:49 pm

it takes awhile for an aspie to recover from being "verbally abused"............what i mean is this- you say that you used to yell at him. and now you don't as much. this is good.....however, aspies will take a long time to learn that you have changed your behavior. perhaps he's on edge not knowing when he'll get yelled at, when he won't get yelled at..............you need to sit down and really think about what you are battling your son about. is it worth the fight?- maybe not.....maybe he doesn't understand that he is doing the wrong thing.....maybe he does understand & is just doing the wrong thing to push your buttons........



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Tracker
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19 Jan 2009, 9:27 pm

No offense, but you sound like my mother. I despise dealing with her.

In generally I am a nice, easy going person. I may not be very social, but I get along well with others. I had/have no problem with my father, or my teachers, or anybody else, just my mother. The reason for this is simple. Other people treat me like a human being. My mother treats me like a slave that should do whatever she ask whenever she asks, and never question her authority. She doesnt care what I am doing or what plans I have. Furthermore she doesnt limit her demands to important or relevant things, she will demand that I stop whatever I am doing and spend 3 hours scrubbing the drive way. No, I am not making that up. Her reasoning is 'the driveway looks dirty, and you dont have a job'. And if I didnt capitulate to her demands she would do whatever she could to make me miserable; yelling, more yelling, harassing, more yelling, taking away my stuff, more yelling, etc.

My mother made my life miserable and made all my problems much much worse then they needed to be. She constantly criticized me about anything and everything. Either my grades were too low, or my hair was too long, or I had too many pimples, or something else about me was wrong. About 95% of my 'conversations' with my mother involved her either nagging, complaining, or yelling at me for whatever was bothering her at that moment. She was never satisfied with anything and constantly reminded me of all the ways I failed to meet her expectations.

If I ever tried to talk, negotiate, reason, or come to a compromise with my mother, I was seen as 'telling her what to do' and 'being disrespectful'. This of course created more yelling.

So, not surprisingly I quickly lost all respect for my mother. I finally got tired of her harassment and stopped listening to her around 13-14 years old. I got a lock on my door and stayed away from her as much as physically possible. I also started a campaign of aggression/backtalk. Its not as though I was actually enraged or temperamental, I was just pretending to be so as a self defense strategy. I would just yell, be disrespectful, etc. at her whenever she tried to tell me what to do. This of course created a lot of tension between us, which meant that she started to avoid me. As such a lot of my problems (which were caused by my mother) went away, or were at least diminished.

I was definitely not happy about the situation. I would have much rather preferred that the relationship with my mother be the same as the relationship with my father. My father respected me, treated me like he would like to be treated, and as such I extended him the same courtesy. If my mother were ever reasonable, respectful, or talked with me like I was a fellow human being instead of her slave then I would have quickly dropped the fake aggression and been happy. But unfortunately, my mother never changed, and thats why I dont talk to her anymore.

To be incredibly blunt: If your son was disrespectful, and aggressive towards everybody who told him to do things (father, teachers, you) then you could reasonably assume that your son is just being too aggressive. However, if he is fine with everybody else except you, then the problem probably isnt on his end. Your probably treated him the way my mother treated me, and I am not surprised he is lashing out. Think about most of your talks with your son. Do you ever discuss things such as what game his is playing? Or are most of your conversations just telling your son what to do, what not to do, and complaining when things dont go the way you want?

In your post you say that you have tried yelling at him, and taking away his stuff. Have you ever tried talking to him like a fellow human being. Have you ever said sorry for yelling, and admitted that your not always right. Try telling him that your just doing your best to help him grow up and your willing to work with him. Be reasonable and talk with your child, not at him. Ask your child to do things, and explain why you want them done, dont demand them. Be reasonable in what you ask your child to do. Keeping his room clean so ants dont invade is reasonable, having his room polished perfectly for inspections at random intervals is not. Remember that the point of chores is to teach your son how to live independently, not be your servant to do whatever comes to you mind. If your child does something you dont like, explain what it is you dont like, and work WITH him to prevent it happening again.

A good apology, followed by a sincere attempt to treat him like an equal will work much better then more punishments. Remember, he may not understand as much as you do, but he is still a human being, and thus you must treat him with the same respect you would want. The relationship here is you helping your child grow, not you controlling him.

The primary reason that I visit the parent's forum is because my mother made my childhood horrifically crappy. If I can prevent just 1 child from suffering the same way I did, then I will have accomplished what I came here for. Please PLEASE, dont assume this is all your child's fault. I will admit that all children must grow and improve themselves, but it is the job of the parent to help that happen, not sabotage the child's happiness.



tigerlady
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20 Jan 2009, 11:44 am

Tracker- I talk to him and treat him like adult. We have many discussion about my behavior and well as his own. We share ideas and I even let him be in charge of many things. I support him 100%. I just want him to listen, when it is time to be on time and to take care of his body!
I don't know why he is very insulting and has a beliittling attutide toward me , when I am not being that way toward him!
Yes I do yell and have realized that is not the way to be! I have walked away from by parents, because my mother, keeps accusing him of being inproprate with others. When he was not at all! I do admit that I have allow her neg. responses to affect my parenting. I have discussed this with my child too! I am changing to be a better parent. Sometime my responses are incorrect, I admit that! I have also backed off on yelling and have decided to let him get it together. If he is late, so be it!

Thank you for your views and thoughts! I am sorry about you and your moms' relationship! That is why I need to change even more!
Any tips from your views and what you wished your mother would and should have done differently!



Tracker
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20 Jan 2009, 9:59 pm

First off I should apologize, after looking over my post I realize that I probably came off as too angry. I didnt mean to attack you, I just wanted to make sure that your child didnt have to go through what I did. If you are listening to your child and treating him respectfully then I have no ill feelings towards you. Just be aware that punitive tactics when used on an angry/upset child will do nothing but make the situation worse. It is natural to become angry, yell, and say things you wouldnt otherwise when you arent happy with the situation. But you must show emotional restraint yourself if you ever expect your son to do the same.

As others have said, it may take some time for your son to change. If you only recently have started talking with him instead of yelling then you cant expect an overnight reversal. I have looked over the book recommended by the other posters (how to talk so your child will listen) and it is full of good advice.

It might be a good idea to sit down and develop a chart of responsibilities with reasonable expectations. For example, you cook meals and handle laundry, your son takes out the trash and does the dishes, and your husband provides the money to buy meals. Remember that this should be a list of your family's responsibilities, and you and your husband should have responsibilities too. This isnt just a chore list for your child, this is a mutually agreed upon division of responsibilities. Keep your requests of him reasonable things such as taking out trash, loading the dishwasher, making dinner once a week, cleaning things he uses up to a reasonable level, etc. Avoid unnecessary or excessive requests such as keeping everything perfectly spotless, or scrubbing the siding on the house. Its reasonable to expect your child to take care of the things he uses. But dont have your son take care of your hobbies for you. If you get a flowerbed for your own enjoyment then you should weed it and water it, not your son. Likewise if you take up painting, then it should be your job to set up the supplies and clean up any mess, not your sons. You shouldn't clean up your son's toys after he makes a mess, why should he do all the dirty work for your hobbies/enjoyment.

Also, avoid telling your son what to do when the outcome affects only him. I know you 'only want what is best for him', but you have to let him decide whats best. For example, dont get after him because his hair isnt combed, or he has too many pimples. That doesnt affect you, and its up to him to decide how he wants to present himself to others. If he is willing to be known as the kid with the unkempt hair, then that is his choice to make. This may not be the best approach when interviewing for a job, but he is only 14, it doesnt matter that much what he looks like. Likewise, if you pay your son to do things like mow the lawn, then let him choose how to spend the money. Your son will be making all these choices for himself when he moves out, and your not doing him any favors by making the choices for him now. Let him take care of himself, and make the decisions when the results only affect him. Obviously he shouldn't be getting any tattoos, or making huge life altering decisions by himself, but letting him decide on the little things without any interference is important. If he happens to spend his money unwisely and quickly runs out then that will be his problem, and he will learn from the mistake. You learn more through your failures then following somebody else guide lines.

If you are unhappy with his behavior towards you then you should probably do the same thing you do for chores. Sit down and write out what is reasonable behavior for you, your son, and your husband. For example, you son will not swear at you, or behave in a way which is intentionally rude. Likewise you will not yell, or be condescending towards your son. You and your son will treat each other with mutual respect. If either of you feels that the other isnt being respectful, then they have the right to say so without repercussion. Your son shouldn't be afraid of defending himself, and neither should you. If you find your (or your son's) temper flaring up, then take a short break. It is better to discuss things in a calm productive manner after waiting 10 minutes then yell back and forth at each other right now.

I cannot stress enough how much I disliked my childhood. I wasn't happy with my mother, and she wasn't happy with me. If I could have changed that and improved the relationship then I would have. I didnt want to be angry at her, I just didnt see any better way of handling things. You have the opportunity to change things now for the better. Please, I implore you, take this chance to make things better for everybody. Don't give up right away because things arent easy. Changing yourself takes time, and it isnt easy for anybody, especially those with autism who have more difficulty with emotions, but it can be done. Continue to be patient and work with your child cooperatively.



Lucymac
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21 Jan 2009, 10:35 pm

My daughter is 11 and while I know I am responsible for some of her problems because of my own yelling, being overwhelmed with work/home responsibilities, my own depression, etc. I am desperately trying to yell at all. I haven't raised my voice since October now. Yesterday I yelled at my younger son because of a few different things that were wrong and she completely freaked out. He was totally fine after two minutes. What I need to do is to rely on my time outs for either me and/or the kids when we feel like emotions are running high. It's hard because my son is typical and needs discipline but I am totally changing the way I parent and it is challenging. The book "One Two Three Magic" has been good. We started about a year ago and it's been a great philosophy. Basicaly the child/parent gets a warning of a count one, if they keep antagonizing you go to two, and then on three they need to take a time out for a short while. Usually it's the minutes of the age of the child, so an 11 year old takes 11 minutes in her room, the seven year old takes 7 minutes in his room. I find that now my kids can feel when they are starting to need to intuitively take their time outs, as do I. Today my 11 year old AS daugther was pushing my buttons so I immediately took a 20 min time out as soon as my husband got home by walking the dog in the cold fresh air. I find that after my or her timeout we do so much better and can calmly get back to normal. Not yelling is a challenge but is doable. Good luck and know that you are not alone and that you are doing a great job. You wouldn't be here searching for advice if you weren't a concerned and loving parent. My motto is Do the Best you can do, that's all you can do and don't blame yourself. You do the best you can do at the time. Learn to be easy on yourself and your child will eventually do the same. Hugs! :)



Anonymom
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22 Jan 2009, 8:28 pm

Used to be the other way at our house. My AS son with ADHD would yell at his Dad, who would yell at him. Dad was a yeller and keep demanding from DS behavior and responses that DS could not deliver. Dad is now my -ex. But his relationship with DS is much better. It has taken 3 years, but he no longer yells at DS; and consequently, DS no longer yells at him. For my -ex, it has been a long, hard road to moderate his behavior. His father yelled at him and demanded a kind of obedience that DS cannot muster. Respectful? Yes. Cordial? Yes. What really made the difference for my -ex was the attorney we hired when we went through due process with the school district. She read -ex the riot act about his behavior and how it was harming DS. When he heard it from a third party, it made all the difference.

We never yell at DS now. It only escalates things.

My experience, for what it's worth.



tigerlady
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26 Jan 2009, 10:08 am

Thank you, I have a lot of work and changes to make. I can't and will not blame him, because I have to change too!