Middle class people suffer - my view

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We don't qualify for medicaid. We have expensive private insurance that still has deductible and copays (like most) after every visit of OT, speech and any other therapy a child may need. We looked into the states medicaid where you can qualify for a specialized program if your child's disabilities are signficant enough - they don't look at income to qualify for this. Basically being at the .1 percentile in some areas is still not enough to qualify. You need to be 20 points below the cognitively disabiled range (<70) on overall adaptive range. So, we don't qualify.

People who have medicaid, are eligible for everything and don't need to pay any money. to They can get developmental services, OT and speech (all of which Nate needs) for free. It will cost us hundreds every month to pay for all of this (this is after insurance). We already pay over $700 a month. If you count meds and copays, we pay around $1000. This is BEFORE counting Nate's needed therapy. When all is said and done (and paid for), we really bring in less than some people who get food stamps. I am all for helping people in need but people who have special needs child and don't qualify for programs are stuck. In this economy, it will just get more difficult to qualify for anything.

We really need this program but there is no way nate is at the adaptive level that is required. I just scored his adaptive level (psych here) and he just isn't. Very few kids are actually at that level but I see many kids getting that special medicaid somehow. I think a lot of them lie. You would have to seriously lie to get at that level. I don't get it. Perhaps there is a loop hole I can figure out. The only way to get Nate those services is to take him out of the private school. That would cause him to be depressed and more anxious.

We will have to figure out something.

If we had less money, Nate would get more services - simple as that. I think a lot of people are in our boat. It sucks.

I will just need to focus on the speech and language therapy and do my best to get Nate a tuition waver (or ask to do some work for them) for his private school tuition. That is probably the best I can do at this point.

Anyone else experience this?

If you go to the Autism Speaks help boards (I know, I know - everyone here hates that organization, and I do too, but that is beside the point at the moment) you will hear from people at all levels who are not managing to access or afford the services their children need. I think some of the most screwed are very low income; what medicare considers appropriate and what a parent does are often far from the same thing. But at the same time you get well off families suing school districts and just by the power of might forcing those districts to pay for private education. All of which leads to one conclusion: there is no "fair" with ths issue, it's all a matter of where you live, how lucky or unlucky you are as to the fit of the various pieces, and how effective you, as a parent, are as an advocate.

Which leaves us all to figure out the best balance acheivable for our one unique child on our own. And it involves tough choices. I didn't know it at the time, but one of those for me was hiring a nanny for my son when he was small instead of having him in group care while I worked part time (another debate not isn't part of the point here). That situation cleared all our savings and part of our home equity but I am really secure that it was the best decision available to us at the time. And those tough choices are currently keeping us married to a public school system that served him beautifully in elementary school, but not nearly so well in middle school. We've talked all the options round and round.

I know how frustrating it is, but you have had choices and you have made them. I think the grass is rarely as green on the other side as it looks. So much goes into living that other life. Perhaps your child is not getting the best of the best of what he might access, but it sounds to me like he has been thriving and that means that you have been managing to get him what he NEEDS. Give yourself credit for that. Too many AS children never get that far, despite spending on their behalf. It's isn't the money that matters nearly as much as the smart choices in where to spend it. And in that area, Nate couldn't have asked for better and more thoughtful parents. He is so far ahead for that as compared to a parent with access to therapy but no common sense on how to be effective with their child at home.

Keep assessing what you think he needs MOST and keep making sure he gets that. All the other stuff, the possibilities that you feel are out there - that may be out there but for $$$ - well, when you feel strongly enough about one, you will find a way. The rest he'll probably be just fine without simply because he has YOU.

And when you and I are old and broke at least we'll be able to look upon our grown children and know that we were the best parents we could have been for them, and we'll be sharing their triumphs and probably still worrying about their difficulties but by then we'll know how they've landed on their feet and we'll be really, really proud.

I'm not sure how my mother did it but she worked with me too so that was cheap. She also took classes to learn how to teach me and she worked with me. That's how she survived me. She was a stay at home mom so she was able to work with me.

We have less money and still do not qualify for many needed services. So we have had to do for ourselves what we cannot afford to have others do for us.

Though I am not a stay at home mom, my husband and I work opposing schedules. We seldom see each other, but our son has the benefit of having one adult home and attentive to his needs six days a week. The seventh day is left as free time for him to indulge in his preferred activities with repeated calls home from us to remind him to do the less preferred activities and check them off on the list. Hubby checks the list and signs off on everything that was completed before he leaves for work on that day and I check again when I return home two hours after hubby leaves.

Many will say that our son being a teen makes things easier, and in some ways it does, while in others it makes things harder.

As for fair, fairness is what you make for yourselves, not what someone hands you. That we all have internet access and forums like this to share experiences and access resources helps. That we are interested enough to do so helps more. I count my blessings that of all the places under the autism umbrella my son stands as an Aspie for at least he is able to communicate with me some of what is needed to help him. I do not know how we would cope if he was lower functioning than he is.

I thought Pres. Obama had passed something recently that gave all kids free healthcare? I swear I read that on Yahoo News somewhere.

As an adult I've had OT services and have to say while some of it helped what she did was very simple stuff and basically being like a surrogate parent. The things OTs do are not magical when it comes to autism. Its stuff that any parent can teach their kids themselves as long as the parent isn't autistic too. Its a matter of sitting patiently with child and teaching them rehearsed conversation & social skills, teaching facial expression recognition, teaching them how to calm down if they are feeling overload, teach them how to express themselves, teach manners, etc. Honestly its something parents should do on their own and not be paying an OT $60+ a hour to do. You can borrow books from the library to assist with this. Its not impossible.

Ticker,

You are right, but school "teaches" a lot of USELESS things! It is FACT that USELESS things are, generally USELESS! They don't help society, etc.... It is ALSO FACT that MOST kids won't remember them anyway, if they are so worthless, etc.... Maybe people should teach MEANINGFULL things! It is like the jerk that recently used a "term" and, when I called him on it, he showed me where it was in the "urban dictionary"! Word to the wise! STAY AWAY from the "urban dictionary" when dealing with strangers or office or legal matters. He said his culture, in a FOREIGN "english speaking" country used that term all the time. When I checked, with some of his compatriots, I found that 75% did NOT immediately understand the term, and don't use it. The other 25% NEVER heard it before! Yet I am sure he may well have been taught it in "english" class. Maybe they should stick to american, or british english or, better yet, just teach the gigantic subset of english that we may all just call ENGLISH! I am SICK of JERKS that "learn" a little something, pass themselves off as experts and, STILL WORSE, "teach" it to others for a fee! And that is an example from a class that would OTHERWISE be worthwhile. Never mind the sociology, propaganda, "art", special interest, etc... It would be GREAT if they had a class in lower grades that simply taught the basics of society and courtesy. HEY, MY first school did it.

natesmom,

You're right. It is just a war on the middle class. There WAS a time when you had to have an INTEREST in society, and had to pay a poll tax. Because they decided it was unfair to some, they abolished it. Though I agree nobody should have to do such things to vote, it was a NECESSARY evil. Because it isn't done now, illegal and dead people vote, may vote several times, and people vote for THEMSELVES rather than society.

A friend of mine once said that all democracies are setup to, and often do, commit suicide. Think about it. She was all too right. It is SAD!

CONGRESS can vote themselves a raise, and did even NOW! The president can appoint HIMSELF a raise! Apparently, that has happened a LOT! I mean not too long ago it was like 150K, and now it is like 400K! The POOR can basically vote themselves a raise!(Medicare, benefits, minimum pay, etc...) The upper class may raise prices, etc... or reduce the aggregate middle class pay to get a raise.(Again, they did that EVEN NOW) The best the middle class can do is invest, save, look for another job, or practically BEG for a raise. EVEN if the succeed, they may fail, as a raise for the other groups often means a cut in middle class pay, through TAXES, layoffs, etc...!

Hi Ticker. Obama can't pass anything. He can suggest, but the congress has to pass it.

Ok, sombody pushed my "medicaid story" button....

Medicaid depends on the state you're in, as far as what they'll do for you, if anything. I believe that, back in the days when we were covered under medicaid while the kid was very young, if you made more than $700 a month here in SoCal (about 20 years ago) you and your kids were not eligible for any sort of medical care - that was basically, full time work at minimum wage. There was no specific medicaid program for adults who were not officially disabled or who did not have dependent kids. I believe that is still the case. There's no universal healthcare for kids or anyone else in the USA that's not based on being low-income - unless it's funded by individual states (I'm a bit rusty, some may have that now. I hope!). Most federally funded medical care is income/"need" based. I think that most states' medicaid programs, if you are low-enough income, will cover kids until they turn 18. After that, they have to be pretty profoundly disabled before it will keep them covered.

Basically, as far as income goes, a family has to almost be on welfare. Back "in the day" AFDC paid $509 for a family of two and we had to pay our rent ($350 a month plus utilities) and check-cashing fee ($9), diapers, laundry, and anything else we needed out of that amount. We got $86 a month in foodstamps. I'd much rather have worked for a living, but I couldn't find a job that paid enough to cover daycare plus rent plus medical care for the kid. I went to school, instead - for years. The foodstamps helped, until I took out student loans to cover a church daycare, because the state-run daycare had a four-year waiting list. Then we lost our foodstamps, because we had funds (for $250 a week borrowed for daycare) available that we could have spent on food, according to the feds. What we got on welfare isn't actually a whole lot less than they pay now, I hear. (shuddering) They did let us stay on medicaid until I was earning enough to, supposedly, have access to insurance and care after I finished school. (We didn't get care for few years when she was older, after I'd graduated. I'd get a job, the kid would be sick and I'd have to leave work and care for her, and I'd be fired over it. Lose the job, and lose the insurance (if it had any). It wasn't illegal at the time and even today there's ways an employer can sack you if you miss too much work due to a family illness, around the law.)

On the medicaid availability part - once you have the card, at least here, it's almost impossible to find anyone who will take it. I literally phoned every doctor's office in the yellow pages once, when the kid was a toddler and had a fever of 105F, and not one single doctor would take a new medicaid patient. We were referred to the emergency room at the county hospital. I think that, if anything, it's gotten worse in recent years. The $$$ thing again. Special needs - yeah, the county has a roster a mile long. Maybe you'll be seen if your case is bad enough. They prioritize, the very worst get the most care and they've cut care for those who can get by (in their eyes) with less. Actually, from what I hear out of a conversation I had last week, they've had to cut care proportionally now for everyone across the board. No $$$.

As it was, when we lived elsewhere (in the deep south) the medicaid program allowed us three prescriptions a month. From their formulary only. If the kid's ear infections/sinus infections/lung things or other problems didn't respond to the first medicine, that meant we could only have two other choices. Since she took a maint. medicine daily, that meant using up one of the three. And you'd only get one course of anything- if the prescription was written for the medicaid-authorized 10 days' normal treatment, that's all you got until the next month. Even if it meant your problems came back. Or even if it didn't work in the first place. Special assistance for non-life threatening disabilities was non-existent.

It's never as easy or as simple as it seems.

I've never quite made it up the ranks to the middle class, I've been working class all my life. So I've always had to make do with not having programs available. Middle class folks with homes may have to mortgage or sell them (ok, selling is pointless now, and mortgages might be impossible), as it's pretty much going to be up to you to find a way to pay for anything you cannot find a way to do for yourself. You'll have to do without a lot of things. A lot you think you are entitled to, maybe. Maybe less food on the table. Maybe no outside activities that aren't free - no soccer club, no football, no band, no dance lessons for other kids. No eating out. No gas-guzzling car - sell it and buy a beater if you have to. Maybe having to live in a neighborhood that's "beneath" you, with bars on the windows and graffiti spray-painted on the walls. Maybe a neighborhood that's not safe. Maybe you'll have to sleep in two rooms, or just one. You do what you have to do to do what you can for your kid. Life has never been fair, don't delude yourself and don't waste time thinking about how rough a deal you have. If your brain still works, you've got something to work with.

My advice would be: don't expect the government, in any form, to be there for you for the next decade or so. The programs they did have are being gutted. Educate yourself, empower yourself, and just do the best you can. You really don't have a lot of options as far as outside assistance. And there is a lot you can do for yourself. A lot of the people you think are experts (teachers, as an example) really don't have a whole lot more going for them than you do - they've just jumped through the socially expected hoops, gotten their papers, and are now "experts." The same materials they read are available to you in the library. If your library doesn't have it, they can order it. Educate yourself.

Good luck, the best of luck to you. Just do what you can.

Great replies -
I just want to say that I am not "expecting" a hand out. that is not the purpose of this post. Again, this state does have a medicaid non income based help for those who make a little too much but has a child with a disability. My son's adaptive skills are just a little too high (go Nate!!) but unfortunely that hurts us getting him that help.

In my state, there are so many agencies that I have contacted to get Nate some developmental therapy but most of them ironically don't take private insurance. They are funded by medicaid only. It's strange as you would think it would be the opposite. I have two agencies encouraging me to get on the non-income based medicaid to get Nate more services.

I do agree, though, that most of the therapy will come from home (us). I just feel strongly in group social skills type therapy that has someone trained to help Nate and the other kids learn those appropriate social skills turning techniques. That is expensive, very expensive.

I do have many friends on medicaid because they need it do to a lower income level. It has been very hard for them to find regular physcians to see them when they or their kids get sick. It has also been hard for them to get the treatments that are necessary when it doesn't have to do with a disability or delay. This state, though, is extremely good at putting gets medicaid or not at the top of their priority and the kids who have medicaid are able to get the full range of services. I do strongly believe that a lot of those children do need it do to possible disadvantage situations. It just would be nice if the rest of us can get a little help for our children.

We also believe in being frugal. We drive our beautiful crappy cars, so beautiful. Our 1985 Toyota Camary may have a red tape on it instead of a brake light, but it works. I can't believe that thing is still going strong:). Our almost 14 year old Dodge grandcaravan is doing well, too! We have a 15 year old TV and buy used clothes. We are frugal. The economy hardship hasn't changed the way we live yet because we have always lived this way. I guess if it gets really bad, we will stop eating out twice a month. I do need to get better at cooking - i suck LOL.

For us, it is really weighing the pros and cons of where our money goes. For now, it is best pay for the private school and the copay on the speech/language services. We will skip the developmental therapy because the private school is more important. We are not certain yet if we can completely afford it but need to wait for a few months to see.

The neuropsych who tested my son must know that his adaptive skills are not low enough yet he said that we should get on it. There has got to be some loophole. I would use it only as a supplementary if needed.

That would be wonderful if Obama does push forward in helping all kids receive the healthcare they need but I don't think it will happen anytime soon due to the economy. If it has been talked about or will go before congress, please let me know or post a link.

Natesmom, I've found that sometimes people can get a little creative on your behalf just because they believe in you. That happened when we were looking for some additional services for my son to help with stress issues. We were referred to community mental health, who determined it wasn't a mental health issue, but decided our son might benefit from a group they had been wanting to put together. It took them a while to put that together, but eventually they did, and social skills turned out to be a large part of it. I found out just last month that the woman who put that group together is "the" go to person in this county; incredibly well known and respected. It was an unusual group situation because they pulled in some incredibly disturbed kids, but my son got a lot out of it and became a leader of sorts to the other kids. I know he felt got something from group because he had to miss his favorite part of the school day to attend and choose to do so.

Lol, I can really go on a tangent, can't I? Point being, sometimes people go the extra mile for you because they can see how important it is to you and they WANT to. Don't lose hope on everything yet.

Indeed. Consider this. The concept of a minimum wage, or living wage, is nothing more or less than a tax on the middle class.


When the minimum wage goes up. The cost of doing business goes up. Those costs get passed on to the consumers, in the form of higher prices. Your average wage earner does not get a corresponding boost in their salary. Minimum wage earners get more money, which is offset by the higher prices. Unions with contracts tied to the minimum wage get more money.

It's all a big scam.

Hi 2ukenkerl,

I'm not sure I understand your response to me. Maybe I didn't make my thoughts clear in my post?? I wasn't talking about school at all. I was talking about the parents teaching the Aspie kid the social and life skills that OT's are often paid to do. Really OT's aren't that special when it comes to helping autistics. Now OT's are helpful to people who are injured in an accident and have a physical injury. So the OT teaches that patient different ways of moving around or dressing themselves, etc. But an OT for an autistic is almost like a scam because they teach stuff that parents could just as easily teach. So why pay out all the extra money to an OT if you can do it yourself? If you have insurance that will pay the OT or can get the state to pay it or something that's fine. But if you don't have that going for you then don't waste your personal finances on stuff you can teach your kid yourself like the proper way to talk to other people or behave in public, etc. My parents taught me that.

I so agree with you. We spend so much on therapy for our kiddo and doctors, yet we can't even deduct it from our income...my husband pays child support, does not get a deduction for it, and thus because of this, what we spend on our kiddo is not above 7.5% the government requires to deduct in taxes...if he was able to deduct that child support, we could at least deduct it from our income tax...so believe me, we are majorly screwed...

With that said, my son is in a class with an OT...you would be amazed how many things I see them do that I think, "you must be kidding...you charge for that?" So many of the things are things that WE did as kids...My son doesn't seem to much need this class at all, we only have him there because of him being able to be in some class with other kids...but I do believe that he reason he is so good in many areas that an OT would normally work with is because we lived out of the country. Living out of the country kids run around in the street, ride bikes all the time, hang from trees, and otherwise play all kinds of games that we played as kids...vs. just video games, etc...I really recommend that you get one of these books about "things to do with Boys" type....such as tying knots, working with tools, etc...or even do some research and brainstorm about games you used to play as a kid...and start working on those with him...you will soon see that the OTs are really overpaid and not really worth the money...

Yeah, that is the REALLY big secret. They EVEN have a special name for that, and act like it is so mysterious, etc... They claim to have NO real idea about why it happens(though we just did), and just say it does! The name? INFLATION! Everything is SO tied together that ONE person, RAISING a key rate a decade ago helped to start this problem that has affected the PLANET!

As for obama with his healthcare? The ORIGINAL problem was that there was not enough money, too many people, and costs were too high. Obama is trying to BANKRUPT the US, MORE people are out of work, and he is RAISING costs. So he is EXACERBATING ALL the problems that prevented us from having healthcare. How can anyone believe any different? SO MANY promised healthcare. If you REALLY want healthcare, LOWER taxes, LOWER spending, give MORE tax breaks and credit for investment in business, and THEN talk about healthcare. In other words, REDUCE the NEED, INCREASE the ABILITY to SUPPLY the need, and THEN work on filling the gap.

Some people think the government can do everything. It CAN'T! It is proven that the US government is FAR less efficient with money and resources. Heck, the tax raises should make that clear.

I was simply saying that a LOT of people would benefit from the early replacement of worthless things with programs similar to ones like you propose. Of course, the parents SHOULD provide some good backup for EVERYTHING, but we pay for SCHOOLS to provide the basics. Some things should be COMMON in society.

Nan,

I don't know what idiot came up with the term "working class", but it is STUPID! It implies that the middle class doesn't work. I guess they had to do something to separate the leeches from lower class that are at least productive.

You're right about education though. Frankly, I would say:

1. LEARN in popular areas in your industry.
2. LEARN in popular areas that are AWAY from your industry.
3. CUT BACK on unneeded items, etc...
4. SAVE CASH(separate banks). In fact, maybe try to save in a FOREIGN bank!
5. SAVE in CONSERVATIVE investments

If you do all that, you SHOULD be OK. MAYBE you can even finally break that ceiling you spoke of.

Hi 2ukenkerl. Pardon the history class, and the time compression, and the lack of specific terminology (it's been a lot of years since I studied it and I'm tired now) and I'm a bit rusty but... let's go WAY off topic! For those of you who wanted to stay with the original, just scroll down to the next message. For the fun of divergence, though:

In the ooolllld days, it was (and this is very generally) upper class/aristocracy, clergy, warrior class, serf/peasant, slave (at some point it was probably clergy first, but just roll with it for the sake of argument)

That morphed into Upper Class (by birth, aristocracy sometimes with segments of clergy), gentry (sometimes with segments of the clergy), merchants/tradesmen (of various strata), peasant/serf, slave.

THAT morphed into Upper Class/Aristocracy (primarily by birth), merchant class, working class (unskilled to semi-skilled labor at various strata within), underclass (poor), and those that used to be slaves but couldn't be called slaves any longer but who were almost in the same situation anyway, except on paper.

THAT seems to have morphed into Uber-upper class (think robber-barons of the 1800s - Carnegie & his ilk), Upper Class/Aristocracy - primarily by birth, middle class (merchants, skilled professionals, people in trades where they do not get their hands "dirty" - I was going to say bankers, but maybe I shouldn't), working class (aka "Blue Collar" trades, farmers, people who work with their hands and break a sweat), poor, and underclass (the folks who are really hurting, homeless, invisible, etc).

My grandparents were of the servant class (which pretty much doesn't exist any longer), in service to a very wealthy family. They sent their son to college and it meant something, in the 1920s. It was a "big deal" as there weren't a lot of sheepskins out there in the first place. He was able to parlay that into a slot as an officer in the career military. He'd never have been invited to dinner with my grandparents' employers (he was too far beneath them), but he did ok in his life.

About 40-50 years ago you were, in a lot of minds in the US, thought of as "middle class" if you had a college education and about $50,000 a year in income. Prior to that time, a university education was pretty much the province of the upper classes, so when the next batch down finally got access to it (ala the GI bill and other options), they assumed (possibly correctly) that getting that sheepskin took them up a step in the ladder. To a large extent, they were probably correct.

That appears to have changed radically, as a huge proportion of kids now get a college degree (that is basically equivalent to what a high-school diploma was 25 years ago) so the "college degree" component of being "middle class" is not longer a true indicator. It seems to focus on the money and original social class, now. And it's more than $50K for a family as far as the money side. The boundaries are fuzzy, of course. You can have someone who's of "aristocratic" origins with very little money, for example, but they remain in their class as long as they keep the behaviors and expectations. You'd never really confuse them with someone with a refrigerator and couch on the porch of their trailer or someone who thinks eating at Red Lobster or Applebees is fine dining.

A lot of people here seem to buy into the highly-simplified formula of 1) rich, 2) middle class, and 3) poor. Easier to comprehend, I guess, but not what I would call accurate. I guess it goes with the 15-second sound bite and McDonalds.

From what I see, our society is way, way more stratified than that. And there are definite, observable levels within each general "class" band I see, as well. In the larger picture, you can have a ton of money, but socially you do not move up the class bands just by having access to the cash. If you think you can, try to crash some of the exclusive country clubs, or private clubs, across the country. Most people who frequent Walmart or the Malls don't have a clue those places really exist. Even if you could buy your way in, you're not "the right kind of people".... (I used to work at one. It was pretty amazing, in there.) Your children certainly won't marry into that class unless you've a particularly beautiful daughter suitable as a trophy for some guy who's tired of his starter wife or a guy who wants to play with your Eliza Doolittle. But nobody likes to look at any of that, it seems. They like to think everyone is "equal" - which they most certainly are not, not by any standard.

But that's just my take of life in the USA, and as a "shot from the hip" observation, having read entirely too much, having talked to too many people, and from having taken way too many sociology classes.

Your advice for how to get ahead is well intentioned, but it does miss a few things. I have 3 college degrees, including post-graduate work. I'm relatively healthy and relatively bright. I have raised a child (who has health issues) and had no free time left to do more than the minimum (two jobs, plus full-time parent) for the last 20 years. I've had, let me count, four different careers now. Maybe five, but that last one is kind of 'iffy' as being properly called a "career". I'm doing ok, but I'm now working as a secretary and have been for the last two decades (after switching careers when one disappeared) and will until I retire in about a decade. As someone relatively up in years, my options close with each passing day - it's "illegal" to discriminate based on age in hiring, but it most certainly is a well-established practice. Just as selection of "non-disabled" persons over those of us with disabilities is illegal on paper, but happens every day. I also don't have the energy I had at 20, so perhaps your advice might work better for a younger person. Age, family status, family background, and health have a lot to do with the equation.

At present, I am earning just enough that, fingers are crossed, I won't spend my "golden years" as a ward of the state. There is nothing left over to put away - no, let me rephrase that, there's not enough left over to put away for it to make any difference. Having cable tv or not at this point of my life makes no difference. I've run the numbers, and had experts run the numbers.

You can have training in a dozen different fields, but if the work does not exist, or if it does not pay sufficiently to meet the minimum living needs (roof, heat, basic food, utilities, medical care, transportation, clothing) there isn't any "extra" to trim from your budget to put away in any sort of savings account. Not on-shore, not off-shore. Training is rarely free, the government-run programs here have waiting lists years long. College/University is rarely free, but can be if you have little enough - and are still prepared for it. If you've not gone to secondary school that provided adequate preparation, or that does not have the appropriate number of advanced classes, your chances of being admitted to a decent university drop exponentially. It's not just what you get out of the books, also. At some schools you're going to have to "fit in" and unless you know the social expectations and can fake it, you're going to be left out of group work. And group-work counts towards your grades. Going to a lower-tier university doesn't do much more for your chances of employment, unless you're going into a high-demand field, than having worked for the four years and gotten OTJ training. A bachelor's degree in, say, english, sociology, or art history from Podunkus State isn't worth the paper it's printed on, really. Except to make you feel "educated."

I definitely agree, IF you have no family obligations (your time, attention, and money are completely at your own disposal) or health limitations, and if you are relatively bright, you can - with luck and a lot of determination - go quite far up the ladder financially. If not, you have to make choices - what do you give up for that? If you decide to go for it, you'll not likely break the social barriers, but as far as money goes, you can accumulate quite a bit. IF you have extended family, the same may also be true - I've seen people who had children farm their children out to relatives so that they were free to climb the ladder and, thus, take the rest of the family with them. In a way, they all won. I've also seen that scenario where the person climbs the ladder, using their extended family as a support system for years, and then walks away from the extended family as if they're some sort of lesser species. (People are weird.) I can't imagine trading my kid's childhood away for a chance to make money. Thankfully, I haven't been in a position where that has been a necessity for survival. I know it is for some people, and I do pity them. But that's only a judgment call/priority in my own mind.

The point to this long ramble is - it's never as simple as it seems. You can list "how to" criteria, but they will not apply to every case. In fact, unless speaking in very, very general terms, they may apply to very few. I realize it's comforting to think you're in control of your destiny, and that if you just do "xyz" (if you work hard, if you're a good person, if you do your duty, etc.) that you'll get ahead and be fine. But my experience is that those are really only half the equation. The other half is sheer, dumb luck of the draw. I've watched people "do the right thing" and ge ahead. I've also watched others do the same and end up in a broken heap.

But go with whatever gets you through the night....

Told you it was going to be "off topic"!