Please help us break this destructive pattern

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So I started reading Look Me in the Eye by John Elder Robison because I am truly trying to understand my 6 year old. Something that really struck me about what he said in the book is that he wished his parents would have explained to him that what he was saying at a young age was socially inappropriate because if someone had taken the time to tell him these things instead of going along with him, he would have understood why he was getting that negative reaction from people at an earlier age and it would have saved him from a lot of heartache. We've been actually doing this with our Kindergartener and we started this at a very young age. The latest thing he does is walk around his classroom and tell his classmates "Everybody loves me" The kids are very annoyed by him b/c he does this over and over again while they are at recess or during snack time etc. The social worker at school actually sat down with him and made a web of like and web of love explaining that love is for your family and like is for your friends. She said he seemed to reject this. At home, we have re-enforced this and also tried to explain that saying over and over again is inappropriate while the kids are talking about other stuff. He seems to be doing this to get attention at this point even if it is negative attention. I see a pattern of this kind of thing happening. I try to explain to him why it is uncomfortable for him to laugh when someone in the room is crying and it just seems spin out of control. It gets worse everyday and I am not sure how to handle this. I see his classmates are just so annoyed by him that they don't even try and I really can't understand how to reach him to make him understand that his behavior is offensive. It almost seems that he is thriving on this negative attention but I really don't know if that is it or not. Tonight we spent 2 hours at a neighbors house with the kids and we decided that we need to avoid these social situations because he just makes the other kids so mad.

Anyone with AS out there or any parent with some advice on how I can help him stop spinning out of control so we can get out of this pattern? How do I reach him so that he understands. HELP!?!?!

Hi, I'm AS.

From my own childhood ... it was pretty common of me to latch on to some word or phrase and walk around repeating it for a while. I don't think I can explain or fully understand the dynamic behind it.

Part of it was intentional declaration, part verbal experimentation, part nervous tick, part social experiment.

They didn't last long.

Based on my own experience (your mileage may vary), if I were you i'd :
* not take it too seriously.
* not bother to correct the child's perception, by saying things like, "not everybody knows you, so they can't love you." he's playing with the idea and doesn't really believe it.
* continue to repeat, "people don't like that, you know." and leave it at that.
* take heart in the fact there are much worse things he could be saying.
* relax. it's probably a temporary little problem with impulse control and nothing else. u don't have to fix it.

as for the larger issue of his acting in a way which seems inappropriate to others (like laughing in the presence of a crying child), all you can do it quietly point it out and keep pointing it out, resigned to the fact his affect will continue to be confusing to NeuroTypicals.

Appearances are not what they seem, especially on the autism spectrum. We might think a kid who laughs in the presence of another's tears is sadistic or callous. But maybe the kid is laughing because he sees another person - so loved and fortunate - upset at a passing triviality. Or he could perceive some other simple incongruity.

Perspectives are starkly different on the autistic spectrum. It creates social confusion, but if nurtured mayalso give rise to genius.

Fitting in isn't everything.

I can't offer advice. I think what you're doing now is good.

But take heart. 6 years old is a very young age. He'll become more mature and learn more. He'll become easier to teach.

I've noticed with my son that the more I push on things like this, the worse they get. It's not that he wants to defiant, its ... well, hard to explain, but defensive, in a way.

Point being, once you've given the explanation and had him acknowledge back to you that he understands how you see it, then you have to back off. Give him time to absorb, experiment, and find his own way. He HAS the information, and needs to make a choice on what to do with it. For the more extreme issues, you can create rules and enforce them with consequences. But the things that are more in the line of annoying bad habits, he may need to discover the natural consequences on his own, as painful as that can be to watch. It's the way experiments are run, they have to be seen through to the end.

My son laughs at the most inappropriate times, too. Laughing is what he does when he has completely run out of ideas on how to react or handle something. If we get mad at him, it gets him more frustrated and flustered, and he laughs harder. Sometimes the best thing to do is simply remove him from the uncomfortable situation so he can absorb what is happening and develop a plan on how to react appropriately.

As an earlier poster said, sometimes an AS reaction has a meaning very different from the obvious one. Lots of detective work involved. Fun, isn't it? But never dull

momofaspiex2: You have a good question. And I'm not qualified to answer; Lab Pet is not a parent nor a 'childrens.' But I am HFA so I might have a perspective. Perhaps he is looking for attention - unknown. That and he's just a kid.

With Aspies/HFA there is a maturational lag and this gap (often) never really closes. Still, for me, I truly DO have a hard time dilineating 'love' from 'like.' I have few emotions but I do feel. The emotions I have are basal. I have learned, the hard way, to not say/write that I feel 'love.' But I do. Caveat: I am not implying sexual connotations or anything inappropriate. I've observed many Neurotypicals can be insert meaning where it does not exist or misinterpret - this is a difference in way of thinking.

So, inadvertently but in TOTAL honesty (Lab Pet is honest to a fault), I've said that I love 'Person X.' Because for me like = love. I've taken another's hand and asked if they want to be my friend. Or if they like me. I can be a social kindergartener.

I'll not want to become too involved, but your son may not really have developed emotions to distinguish between like/love. Also, the Autistic lack of Theory of Mind is to NOT know that what Autist knows is not 'common knowledge.' That is, that he feels love isn't reciprocated by his Neurotypical peers. And for that I am sorry.

Autists can be very emotionally pure - and this will be misinterpreted. He may mean, quite literally, he feels love. And by association, then so does his friend(s).

Lab Pet is a very logical being. And I do feel but at a rudimentary level.

One suggestion....you could instead tell him what he FEELS or thinks need NOT be spoken aloud. Teach him, like by playing, to keep that part quiet. And do explain this is not lying! He might, by logic, reason that to not say is lying. I am/was much this way (except I mostly write, not speak). If I am asked a question then I answer and with honesty. Can you show him, like with a stuffed animal, that what he thinks/feels needn't be revealed? Usually, for Aspie/HFAs, to show is best (verbally explaining isn't). To keep explaining, over and over, is just an exercise in futility is the message is not conveyed.

I am still often disillusioned that others (NTs) can harbor 'secret' feelings and they might not like another, but outwardly be nice - this is an error in logic; computational error.

I hope my answer isn't too convoluted but I do recognize what he's saying. And why. I suggest to you, he might say, "Everybody loves me" because he loves everybody. This is 'parallel thinking' and even common amongst Aspies.

Post Script: My video clip is below, URL in signature line. You might want to watch - explanatory.

you don't mention any consequences for this inappropriate behavior.........glad to hear you're explaining it to him, but in order to end it- he needs some sort of consequence

Thanks to all who have replied so far. I have some follow-up questions for some of you but I need to really think some of my questions through before I ask them. I will be posting those when I have a little more time.

But, I just read this last post from ster and I have to ask this now. Consequences? What do you mean? You feel he should be punished for this? How? I am not sure if I agree with this but I do appreciate your input and would like you to expand so I understand what you mean. Everyone has there own opinions and I welcome ones that differ from my own...I would like to understand this better. Ster, are you AS or are you a parent of a AS child? This is just important for me to know because if you are AS and feel that consequences are appropriate, I really want to know what you think would work. If you are a NT parent, I would like to know what has worked for you with your child. Thanks so much!

We had a lot more luck giving him things to replace what he was saying to annoy people. He was calling other kids nonsensicle words and kids were still getting offended even though they weren't real words. He saw that he was getting a response from them, but didn't understand the "negative vs. positive" response difference. So instead we have really hit home positive things he can call other kids. For girls he can call them, "smart, beautiful or nice." For boys he can call them, "cool, nice or smart." We use it when we watch TV, out in public, at school. It took him a while to make it habit, but now it is and the teacher says its made a huge difference and the other kids love being called "smart or beautiful" out of nowhere. He has even taken to telling the teacher she is smart and beautiful and she says she loves it. The redirection has helped a great deal and he is still getting the "reactions -- yet now positive." that he was craving. He is 5. Some of this may have to evolve as he gets older so girls aren't creeped out by him calling them "beautiful" all the time, but we will cross that bridge as appropriate.

So maybe if he were saying, "All the kids are cool." or "All the kids are smart." all the time, they wouldn't be so annoyed.

It is funny that some people could get away with what your son is doing but in a more social appropriate way. Think about it.

The fact is you are lost for words why it is “wrong” because there are few reasons why it is, other than the fact it is a social convention. Social conventions are not all rational by nature. If they were it wouldn't be hard to follow them.

The fact of the matter it comes down to hurting other people confidence and self esteem and this would be more rational to explain, but maybe a little tricky at first. Nobody like someone who hogs the limelight because we are all selfish as the next person. If you are going to hog the limelight then do it effectively, even in such a way that people start to emulate you. However if you can do that then, best share the limelight and keep some stuff back.

hi. I am NT, married to a man who is AS. I have 4 children- 17 year old AS, 14 year old NT, 16 year old ADHD, and 10 year old ADHD/(AS ?)......I am a teacher in a non-inclusive special ed school. ..........
Regarding consequences, you say that you want the behavior to stop. Unfortunately, some individuals really don't stop behaviors until there is a consequence for that behavior.......Even when there is a consequence, behaviors aren't necessarily easy to stop- for instance, I overeat. Overeating causes me to gain weight. The negative consequence ( weight gain) only dissuades me from overeating sometimes- sometimes the draw of eating is just too much...........It seems to me that the more you are paying attention to the behavior, the more it is increasing. It also seems to me that you're not getting through to him about stopping this behavior....
It also seems to me that ignoring the behavior is not working..........
IMO, your child needs to be given clear rules to follow regarding this situation ( ie; you can say it once a day at school ). If this rule is not followed, then he needs to be given some sort of consequence- it could be that he needs to have time away from all the students to settle down....or maybe he needs to straighten a bookshelf ( my daughter loves doing this)....or maybe he needs to sit and look at a social story book about why this action is inappropriate..............i'm sure there are many other options out there