Need input about Cub Scouts

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My son's Den will be starting their last year of Cub Scouts in the fall. He just turned 10 and has high functioning Asperger's. He has been going to social skills groups since he was 5 and it has helped quite a bit. Cub Scouts has been good for him. He does activities with boys and also learns stuff. I have taken the role as Den Leader for the boys in our group (there are a total of 5 boys).

There's another boy in our Den that has Asperger's, but he has lots of social anxiety. We have been holding meetings at his house, because he doesn't like them at the Church. However, he participates for about 5-10 minutes and then goes to his room to play video games because he's stressed out.

Last night, we needed to hold our last meeting at the Church so we could have an official flag ceremony. He did not participate at all. For some reason, the Church setting caused him great anxiety; he ran to the bathroom and hid until it was time to go.

At our Pinewood Derby (the small wooden car races), he had a meltdown because he didn't get a trophy. So the Pack leader gave in and handed one to him. This really isn't fair to the other boys. He barely meets the requirements for getting badges, but they always give in to him.

NEXT year, we will be visiting Boy Scout groups (older boys), going to Boy Scout meetings and two camp outs with Boy Scouts. These are with other groups in the area so we can find out more about "the next level" of scouting. So there will be a lot of networking, meeting new people, going LOTS of places.

My questions are:

1) He will not be able to GO to these places, which is part of the requirements for the last badge. Do we accommodate for him and give him the badge anyways??

2) Do we still hold meetings at his house - even though he doesn't really want to participate??

3) How to I ask/tell the parents "This is too much for him." I mean - seriously.... if my son had this much anxiety, I would not put him through this. I would have him do other things that he WOULD be able to handle.

It sounds like his parents may be in denial about their son's social difficulties. Allowances should be made that are reasonably tolerable to the other
boys as many of the other boys will soon resent that this one boy is shown so much favoritism while they must "follow the rules" and work hard to achieve their badges.

It is apparent that this boy is developmentally "delayed" and will not be able to move ahead with the other boys into advance scouting with older boys
scouts. Perhaps, you could gently bring up the subject with this boy's parents, express your concern for their son's anxiety and emotional distress and that there may be other activities more suitable than scouting at this time.

I think it would be a real disservice to the other boy to give him awards he did not earn, not to mention to the four other boys (including your son). Right now having meetings at the boy's house instead of at the Church is creating a condition of unworkability that is not consistent with what Scouting is about. I'm certain the other boys resent him and by giving him special treatment, that will only increase their resentment and make him more of an outcast. That will increase his anxiety, creating a vicious circle. Also, just as important, it really is ripping off the boys who work hard to earn their awards and badges.

I have Aspergers and I also made it to Eagle Scout. I look back on my seven years in Scouts as one of the best experiences of my life, mostly because I had to work hard and I _earned_ everything I got. I saw a lot of boys come and go who were in the troop simply because their parents thought they should be in there. Every last one was miserable and had some level of resentment towards Scouts. I think the boy's parents are well-intentioned in that they want their son to get away from the video games and have wholesome interaction with other boys. However, I see the same results, where he will resent Scouts and his parents.

I suggest having a straight conversation with the boy's parents. Tell them that Scouts is not a replacement for the behavioral therapy I think this boy so desperately needs. Let them know that it's predictable the other boys will only ridicule him, making his condition worse. Given your son has Aspergers, you are well suited to have this conversation with them. Also, I suggest as Den Leader, your have the obligation and authority to have this conversation for the sake of the four other boys.

I'm not a therapist and please take what I say with a large grain of salt. I can only speak from my own experience. Bottom line for me: Please talk to the boy's parents and request they remove him from Scouting until he is ready to and wants to participate. If you think it's appropriate, talk with them about your experience and any benefits you see from their son getting behavioral therapy or some other remediation.

Social anxiety isn't necessarily a developmental thing. NTs get it too, like my friends. I can be very severe sometimes. But yes it is not the responsibility of the boy scouts to try to intervene. This can make things worse. The best thing for him is something like CBT, tailored toward his SA and AS. He may incorporate the Boy scouts into that at some point but only when he is ready. it is not for the boy scouts to get involved.

It sounds like the parents are trying hard to have their son interact with other boys his age. I agree with everything you and other posters have said. If you talk to his parents though, be very careful that it doesn't sound like you're asking to "kick him out of cub scouts." - not that you are saying that at all - you're not, but that's what the parents might hear, and they might start making demands.... I've seen this before. If you want to talk to his parents about anything regarding the fact he isn't keeping up - talk to a higher up in your organization first to see if they have a suggestion for you. The parents have already talked you into meeting at their house, and even that doesn't really help. What else might they ask next year? I think the organization's HQ needs to know about this, since it's an accomodation issue.

As a former cub/boy scout as well as assistant scoutmaster and den leader, I have to say that it is time to stop this right now. This boy will not survive in boy scouts where the boys are leading the functions rather than the adults.

Scouting is an organization for teaching skills to boys, not a therapy groups. They do allow for alternate requirements for boys whose disabilities prevent them from completing the normal requirements. The alternate requirements must be as tough as the original requirements though for the boy in question (in one case, I was teaching knots to a group of new scouts and part of that group was a boy with no arms/hands. Before I would sign off however, I required that the boy verbally told me how to tie the knot while I followed his instructions). This child will simply not be able to slide as he has in cub scouts where the requirements give more leeway.

Boy scouts also involve less home/church/meeting time and more camping time. The basis of the meetings are to plan outdoor trips which should average about 1 per month. Most of this planning also involves preparing supplies and shopping for food/supplies that will be needed. In fact, in a well ran boy scout troop, the adults are there simply to provide transportation, offer advice, and make sure the boys do not do anything that will endanger themselves or others.

Simply put, if this boy does not have the social skills to survive a cub scout den meeting, he simply will not survive boy scouts and giving this boy the Arrow of Light Award without him meeting the requirements is doing him a disservice. He would be better off getting proper therapy and then seeing if maybe in a year or 2, he can handle Boy Scouts. Not getting Arrow of Light is not the end of the world.

Now, talking to the parents. I do not think that you should do this alone but I would suggest that the parents of the other den members not be there either. I would suggest having the Cubmaster with you and possibly an Assistant Scoutmaster from the troop that the pack feeds into. This will make them available for questioning and quite possibly, show that this is a more united front. If that does not work, it may be time to bring in the district personnel.

I think the others have made some excellent points. While I find scouting to be a fantastic activity for AS kids overall, there are some things scouting cannot overcome, and the levels of anxiety you have described are on that list.

Have you talked to the boy at all, about how he feels about scouting? Why he is there, if he likes it, what he hopes to get out of it? As his den leader, I think it's an appropriate conversation for you to have with him. I would go to him first, BEFORE talking to the parents. It's really difficult to imagine that he is enjoying his experience given all you've told us. If he really is drawn to scouting and wants to find ways to participate to the extent he can, I would work with him on finding acceptable alternatives for the Arrow of Light requirements, but also gently let him know that moving up to Boy Scouts probably isn't appropriate for him. He really should be old enough and smart enough to have a reasonable conversation with you about it all.

Thank you for all the feedback!! !
And VERY much appreciate the feedback from other Scouts!

I think what's hard for me in this situation is -- I also have a son with Asperger's and he really enjoys Scouting. He would live outdoors if we let him! LOL!! ! It seems to be one activity that I can relax because I know my son is enjoying himself as well as the other boys.

I will have to sit down with this boys parents - which I know will not be easy for them. In my heart, I know it's in the best interest of their son to not continue. If MY son was stressed like that and not enjoying himself, I wouldn't MAKE him do it. It's not that I am "comparing" my son to this other boy with Asperger's, but more that they have difficulties in different areas. I have a feeling the parents may look at this as "discrimination" and wonder why my son can do it, but not theirs --- when I really have nothing against their son at all.

For the record, I don't have any personal experience with BSA. I did, however, attend Girl Scouts for 6 years ( 2 Brownies/ 3 Guides/ 1 Pathfinders).

This is a touchy subject...but I think you have a slight advantage here.

Talk to the boy first. Ask him how he's doing, if he's liking the program. Chances are, he might only be there because of his parent's expectations. The meltdown's regarding not getting trophy's could be because of the pressure that his parents put on him to succeed in Scouts. It doesn't seem like he's upset because he himself didn't succeed, because he doesn't seem to want to be there in the first place. A more typical response would be to not care that he doesn't earn badges.

So either, he WANTS to be there, but doesn't have the maturity to work for it. OR, his parents force him to attend scouts.

Either way, both of those are recipies for disaster when it comes to applying for Boy Scouts.

Boy Scouts (from what I understand) is a higher pressure program than Cub Scouts. More maturity is expected, badges are harder to earn, and free riders are frowned upon (unless the boy is severely disabled, either pronounced MR, multiple physical, or mental/physical combinations). Because to the other boys, denying a severely disabled boy badges would be like taunting a baby with candy. However, that's NOT the kind of attitude that you want the other boys to have about the mildly disabled boys. You want them to...you know, respect them as peers. And justifying this boy's free riding with his AS not only leads the other boys to disrespect this boy, but possibly also your son as well.

Even if you decide to just "graduate" this boy from Cub Scouts (to avoid a meltdown and parental outrage), both this boy and his parents need to realize that Boy Scouts is just not the best for him right now.

As for talking to the parents, you don't have to be as gentle as you might think you have to be. You have the advantage of already having a son with AS (who happens to be handling Cub Scouts just fine). Because of that, it will be much harder for this boy's parents to dismiss you as a bully/bigot.

Be frank with them. That their son is a nice enough boy, but it seems like he's just not "in sync" with the BSA program. You've been "carrying" him through the entire thing just to appease both him and them, and the same can't be done for the more advanced levels of scouting without it becoming much more complicated for everyone involved. It's obvious that he would be better suited to another plan of action, for the sake of his own mental health.

This is true with my son, as well. Even though he has had a lot of issues with some of the other boys this year, he LOVES scouting, and wants to be on absolutely every outing. His Boy Scout troop is 100% focused on the advancement and the outings -- they camp two nights every month. I can't imagine what there is in it for a child that doesn't want to leave his room; what can he be gaining from it? That is really what struck me. I just don't think the boy you are concerned about it is happy with scouting. He DESERVES to be involved with things that help him THRIVE, instead of holding him back, and it just doesn't sound like scouting is it for him. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

I've been a parent helper for a while but am now training to be a cub leader.

Two points;

1. The cubs don't have to achieve all of the requirements perfectly to get a badge. They simply have to do the tasks to the best of their ability.

That means that you don't "give into him" by giving him an off-the-cuff badge but you do exercise greater leniency when doing tests. If he can't do it but has given it a worthwhile shot, then he has earned the badge.


2. If the cub with special needs is unable to attend regular cubs without causing major disruptions then there are apparently special needs cubs groups which he can join. These special needs groups don't need to meet in the same way and can still get together for certain group activities (camps, jamborees etc) as they feel appropriate. Try to encourage the boys parents to help out and/or become an associate leader. They may be able to ease their son through the activities and badges without causing so much disruption. They may also be able to form a special needs scout group in the area, if there isn't one nearby. The special needs scout group doesn't have to have more than 1 or 2 members.

I was never in scouts, so I don't know what they do exactly, but isn't it a lot of outdoor skills and camping and stuff like that? If that's what he enjoys, maybe you could suggest, when you talk to his parents, that if they took him out of scouts, they could still do that kind of stuff as a family with him which would keep the fun but not the stress. My family did a lot of that stuff and I enjoyed it very much.
I mention it just in case they're the lazy kind of parents who might not consider doing that kind of thing independently with their kid and just think it's the organization's job or something.