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Ambivalence
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23 Sep 2010, 2:39 pm

Bioshock 2 isn't bad, there are some nice improvements over the original and it looks gorgeous, it just lacks originality and a bit of edge.


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Ebonwinter
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23 Sep 2010, 2:46 pm

Ambivalence wrote:
Bioshock 2 isn't bad, there are some nice improvements over the original and it looks gorgeous, it just lacks originality and a bit of edge.


Plus it was too short.



GoonSquad
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23 Sep 2010, 3:09 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Apparently Collumbis is completly opposite to Rapture in a few way, well there is the obvious ocean to sky thig. But Rapture was made in secret, by private investors, while Collumbis was made very publicy by the American government as a way to show off and say "this is what we can do", though dissapeared soon after launch. Apparently instead of being about capatalist extremes, it American elitism, and very xenophobic, actually a big difference if you realise that Rapture had people from all over the globe.


And what do you think powered American Elitism during the Gilded Age? This is the age when businessmen like Rockefeller and Morgan bailed out the U S Government and the U S military invaded countries to enforce American business contracts!

This is a period when the robber barons justified their excesses with theories of Social Darwinism.

This is a period of time when Ayn Rand would have been right at home.


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Bradleigh
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24 Sep 2010, 1:17 am

GoonSquad wrote:
And what do you think powered American Elitism during the Gilded Age? This is the age when businessmen like Rockefeller and Morgan bailed out the U S Government and the U S military invaded countries to enforce American business contracts!

This is a period when the robber barons justified their excesses with theories of Social Darwinism.

This is a period of time when Ayn Rand would have been right at home.

Interesting enough Andrew Ryan Russia to go to America beliving the great individual could prosper but mentioned in his introduction video to Rapture, he hated "the man in Washington", And his last straw with leaving America was the bombing of Hiroshima. There would be quite a bit of clashing with the ideals of Andrew Ryan and thus Rapture to what you mentioned, especially the disliking of "bailing out", and the invasion of another country, of which apparently Collumbis is also a giant weapon to be used against the enemies of America.

There might be simularities of Darwinism, but Rapture was always of the Individual, while Columbis may be of the masses, although there is clues that Columbia might descriminate as of yet unkown selectism.


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GoonSquad
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24 Sep 2010, 2:54 am

Bradleigh wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
And what do you think powered American Elitism during the Gilded Age? This is the age when businessmen like Rockefeller and Morgan bailed out the U S Government and the U S military invaded countries to enforce American business contracts!

This is a period when the robber barons justified their excesses with theories of Social Darwinism.

This is a period of time when Ayn Rand would have been right at home.

Interesting enough Andrew Ryan Russia to go to America beliving the great individual could prosper but mentioned in his introduction video to Rapture, he hated "the man in Washington", And his last straw with leaving America was the bombing of Hiroshima. There would be quite a bit of clashing with the ideals of Andrew Ryan and thus Rapture to what you mentioned, especially the disliking of "bailing out", and the invasion of another country, of which apparently Collumbis is also a giant weapon to be used against the enemies of America.

There might be simularities of Darwinism, but Rapture was always of the Individual, while Columbis may be of the masses, although there is clues that Columbia might descriminate as of yet unkown selectism.



The premise behind Bioshock is loosely based on Atlas Shrugged--the best of the best form their own enclave where they are free to realize their potential without being exploited by an unworthy society...

The thing is, at the turn of the last century in America, "the best of the best" didn't have to worry about being exploited by an unworthy government or society because THESE MEN CONTROLLED EVERY ASPECT OF GOVERNMENT AND SOCIETY.

During the gilded age AMERICA WAS RAPTURE--or as close as you could get to it in reality. The economy operated on pure, unrestrained capitalism and society operated on the principle of survival of the fittest.

When I took post reconstruction history, my professor told the class,
Quote:
There's no need to know the presidents between Grant and McKinley because they didn't do anything. The names you need to remember are Carnegie, Gould, Rockefeller, Morgan, Vanderbilt. These are the men who ran America during the Gilded Age, not the presidents, not the government.


The reason American businessmen bailed out the government is because the government literally belonged to them!

Oh, and let me tell you about the enemies of America during this time... America invaded half of Central America, Guatemala, Honduras, and orchestrated the secession of Panama from Columbia during this time so American companies could grow bananas and ship them to Europe faster (via the Panama canal).America also invaded Haiti and toppled the government of Hawaii for similar reasons.... The enemies of America during this time were the enemies of American Business profits!

And finally, not being an American, I'll give you a pass for thinking the game might be taking a turn toward the collective. During this time union leaders where being killed in the streets by policemen and socialist politicians spent years on end in prison (so much for American free speech). This is hardly a time for American collectivism... But honestly, collectivism just isn't part of American DNA.

I guess I can see why some might think this game is totally different from the previous two, but if you're familiar with the history of America at the turn of the last century, it all fits together nicely.
:wink:

PS

Just a bit of trivia...

At the turn of the last century Wall Street was bombed by terrorists and President McKinley was assassinated by an anarchist.

These were definitely interesting times...


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Bradleigh
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24 Sep 2010, 3:26 am

Yeah I am Australian and history is not my strong suit, so I have a bit of a disadvantage with a few of these things. Well I did get an advantage at one point in the first Bioshock game which the code to a door was Australia day in Australian date format.

Well what I am waiting for is how do those drink things give you powers, we already have setting for the Rapture setting with there being a lot of science and the discovery of the sea slug. A little look at the wiki site mention that each power has it's own peronal charges before being used up, unlike sharing a simular fuel.


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GoonSquad
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24 Sep 2010, 4:11 am

Yeah, something that might be lost on non-Americans is that underneath the entire series is a strong criticism of the American extreme right.

In recent years Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged has been adopted as a sort of political bible by neoconservatives. 50 years after it was first published, it is still in the top 50 novels sold in the US.

These days, the trend among right wing nutters is to romanticize the late 19th century as a golden age of American Capitalism and demonize Progressive reformers of the early 20th century like Teddy Roosevelt, Taft, and Wilson--the evil men who gave us child labor laws, food and drug safety laws, anti-trust laws, and woman's suffrage among other things... THOSE BASTARDS! :evil:

:lol:


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Ambivalence
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24 Sep 2010, 8:44 am

Hehe. With apologies to the saner Americans, reading Atlas Shrugged is a good way for people from saner parts to understand some American politics - once you learn what they think SOCIALISM!! ! means you can see why they get so terrified and upset by the word. :)

I don't think Bioshock is a criticism of Rand, though, just a commentary that doesn't take any particular side. The sequel feels more like an outright criticism; it'll be interesting to see how this new one plays it.


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skafather84
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24 Sep 2010, 10:13 am

GoonSquad wrote:
Yeah, something that might be lost on non-Americans is that underneath the entire series is a strong criticism of the American extreme right.

In recent years Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged has been adopted as a sort of political bible by neoconservatives. 50 years after it was first published, it is still in the top 50 novels sold in the US.

These days, the trend among right wing nutters is to romanticize the late 19th century as a golden age of American Capitalism and demonize Progressive reformers of the early 20th century like Teddy Roosevelt, Taft, and Wilson--the evil men who gave us child labor laws, food and drug safety laws, anti-trust laws, and woman's suffrage among other things... THOSE BASTARDS! :evil:

:lol:


Agreed.

I still don't get why people who'd suffer the most under 19th century conditions want to return to those times. It as if they believe fairy tales over the historic facts of the conditions of the time.

But then again, everyone also thinks they're special and it's just the darned government holding them back, not the mere fact that most people are little more than walking cavemen who've been gifted the vast majority of the technology they currently enjoy (and would no longer be able to afford under 19th century conditions).


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