What do you look for in an MMORPG?

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Oh ok. I'm not really playing WoW anymore, but yeah I'd say in 3s they are pretty powerful with a resto shaman slave, unless the game has completely changed in my 4-5 month abscense. I saw destro a few times in arena, though I never did get far. Always had a pretty easy time with them and I was a very mediocre, borderline bad pvper. Destro really hasn't had much presence anywhere in Cata, I remember it being pretty simple for pve(in WOTLK) and come cata it received a horrible priority/rotation.

I didn't get too far in the link you gave me but the mage thing made me laugh inside since they spent the entirety of Cataclysm being superior to warlocks (pvp/pve) for much less effort. I know this because I've pveed and pvped as both classes in Cataclysm (at 85).

Everyone goes on about fear but its really the most nerfed CC, as it stands now. I've always seen warlocks as a class that either does REALLY amazingly well for a few patches but then everyone and their grandmother b*****s about them and they get nerfed very fast. Other classes have enjoyed dominance for a long time on and off but I think ever since BC shenanigans people still think warlocks are a very "OP" class. They haven't been for cata at least, anywhere close really. I think they took they went too far and made them a pain to play without offering a lot of reward.

Sorry for turning this topic into WoW but I wanted to respond to your (good) reply.

Back during whatever season that was, when destolocks were at their best, a chaos bolt crit could mean 1/2 or more of your HP, and that was BEFORE the immolate/conflagrate/incinerate triple-bomb that was coming right up next. This was, of course, in full resilience gear.



Frost mages and destolocks were tearing it up pretty hard at the time. At least warlocks could be locked down if you got on top of them, frost mages could blink/ice block/invis all over the place! They're really just as bad as rogues.



You have described the entire PvP history of warlocks, literally since Vanilla, perfectly, just like that.

When everyone and their mother was playing a forsaken due to how OP wotf was, it kept desto warlocks in check, cause you could eat through two of their fears. If you DIDN'T have wotf, however, that warlock could blow just about any class and spec to smithereens in the 5 second fear he got after you trinketed out of his first one. And my god, the combo...THE COMBO! DEATHCOILFEARFEARCHAOSBOLTIMMOLATECONFLAGRATEINCINERATE boom. You're dead!

It's a MMO topic, right? Nothing wrong with talking about an MMO, I played Warhammer too, but too bad EA ruined that s**t.

WoW's PVP is a joke and has always been a sick joke. I wish they would stop attempting to balance around it. The only worse PVP joke Blizzard is going to release is PVP in D3. Yay for the ability to not dodge or LOS spells that were cast on you.

The sad thing, is that Warhammer Online's PvP was even worse, and it was ostensibly a PvP game!

I'm presuming you're criticizing the lack of dodging and LOS in D3's PvP? I haven't bothered with it, yet.

I became pretty involved with WoW's pvp during Cata, some in BC and kind of agree with it being a joke. I do think the game has suffered for trying to balance everything around it. The most fun I've had with WoW pvp (which I have had a lot of fun with) was leveling in BGs as an arcane mage with a group of paladins. Its so funny exploding everyone with no resilience and CCing people who don't have trinkets, its unfair but god it was so much more fun than anything I did at 85.

Its sad about Warhammer Online because that's a universe I really can get into, like Warcraft. I WANTED that game to be good, ugh . That's one thing that keeps me coming back to WoW, I really enjoyed the built up universe from the Warcraft games, it was most enjoyable during BC and WOTLK. I'm really trying to enjoy GW2 when my internet is not sh*****g out on me and I think I've finally hit a stride with a race I enjoy (asura) but stuff just wasn't that enjoyable for me before then. The asura are neat, I like for mmo's to have interesting settings and factions that make me think "Oh wow this is cool." or they are familiar to me, like with WoW. Prior to the game coming out I was hyped up because WC3 was one of my all time favorite games (and still is). I really don't want more MMO's, but that's why if a Starcraft mmorpg came out I would be absolutely doomed.

WoW was my first real MMORPG, and was probably my last too. I just don't have the patience for leveling up and grinding crap anymore, let alone the constant fee. And, WoW's PvP, for as much as everyone says it was a joke, had no real alternatives. WAR and Darkfall tanked, and Aion was an Asian grindfest (Who'd have ever guessed?). What else was there?

.....except DotA, of course, speaking of WC3. DotA was always more to my tastes, because I could walk into a game, and defeat my opponents purely on the measure of the skill of me and my teammates (given decent hosting, that is). Nobody with Glaives and Valanyrs coming to kick my ass. I'd still be playing LoL if I had the time for games lately.

PvP hasn't been implemented yet. You can't dodge spells in PVE in D3. It was a design decision by Blizzard that they didn't want people to play like that. It wasn't fun according to them. However, there is a tendency to have downright ret*d affix combos on elite packs that can completely wreck you. I'm looking at you vortex/jailer/desecrator (or plagued or arcane enchanted)/shielding(or invulnerable minions). Since you can't dodge spells that were cast on you, you get destroyed. The only chance you have at success is to pop a damage cool down such as archon (sp?) and hope to kill pack before the cool down ends.

The game isn't balanced in PVE (melee classes get screwed compared to range) either. PvP will be a complete joke. When it is implemented, the tears will be epic and DH/Wizards will be nerfed into the ground. Which sucks for what is supposed to be a single player game.

I'm having a hard time making my mind up about D3. I don't know if I didn't quite like it just because I'm finding myself losing interest in single-player games, or if they just didn't do that good of a job. Tbh, the way they reworked the skill system was brilliant (It really beat the hell out of rerolling a whole new character every time your spec was made obsolete by a patch in D2 before they introduced the respecs). The difficult monster packs in D3 haven't bothered me either, if anything I've finally got something a computer opponent can offer me that's an actual challenge! I just.....don't really seem to care quite as much.

There's just something to defeating a human that computers simply cannot replicate on their own. Competitive online gaming has ruined me!

I really just think D3 isn't as good as D2. Once I hit hell and ran into my first "invulnerable minions" monster I quickly lost interest and I don't know how much I really like the new skill system. I was fine with it at first but replaying D2 a few times again I like the tree more because I'm crazy. There was a sense of reward when I could go pump up my stats or talents with a level up but in this I feel that most of the runes and spells/skills are useless and everyone uses the same build. Maybe D2 Hellmode was just like that, I never got very far into D2 aside from beating it a few times. That's another problem I have with D3, yeah it sounds cool that you have an additional difficulty but really nightmare mode feels like how normal should be.

I don't HATE D3, but I think, aside from some very big quality of life changes (better storage, no more buying scrolls) that D2 is still the cooler game. I know this complaint is highly subjective, but I feel D3 lacked any of the "coolness" or atmosphere of its predecessor. Diablo isn't known for its amazing storyline but the writing and dialog is painfully bad in D3 and not in a corny way, just bad. Really, as soon as I beat Diablo 3 I couldn't stop thinking about how I really enjoyed everything about D2 much more, ASIDE FROM TOWN PORTALS, D3 totally rocked there. I don't care if you say its catering to casuals but it sucked so hard having to buy a crapload of scrolls to do everything. I -did- like being able to teleport in and out of boss battles in D2 though. Inventory totally improved too just because I can buy more space..

Don't care either way about Diablo 3 pvp, it might be fun but it won't be if they seriously balance it and every aspect of the game around it (like WoW).

My hope is that Torchlight 2 will be a better successor to D2 than D3 turned out to be.

The invulnerable minions aren't as bad as you think once you learn the tactics for dealing with them. The real trick to invulnerable minions packs is having a tank capable of pulling away the minions so that DPS can focus down the main guy. But...yes, that is pretty difficult to do solo.



Well, to be fair, D2 had the same thing. Remember when every sorc was a frost orb sorc in classic? Then it was firewall sorcs in LoD. THEN it was nova/TS sorcs when they nerfed the firewall sorcs. THEN it was meteorb sorcs after 1.10 and meteor got all kinds of synergy lovin'.

And let's not forget zons. Multishotmultishotmultishotmultishot [insert 500 dead cows]. At least sorcs used different moves with each patch! The only other build zons ever really had were Titan zons.



I'll have to agree with you there, they were smart about letting D2's PvP be an incidental thing. If a build just happened to be good in PvP, so be it. They didn't bother trying to make every class and skill tree viable. If anything, they were probably very pleased that Necromancers and Iron Golems were good at least somewhere!

As for the scrolls thing, that has nothing to do with catering to casuals, in my opinion. There's nothing "hardcore" about taking on pointless inconveniences. What is really added to the gameplay experience by having to carry them around? If D3 were a survival-horror game, it might make more sense, but let's be real here, D3 is a hack and slash, people aren't here to micro-manage their inventory. Removing the scrolls was an intelligent design choice, really.

Curious, though....what did you make of Leah-Diablo's milkshake in the act 4 cinematics?

"Wow. This will probably turn people on."