Super Mario Maker!

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I'm surprised that you'd hit the block limit at all... I'd kinda be interested to see how you managed that, since not once have I seen or even heard of it happening. It sounds like you might have gone a bit overboard... I tend to make huge levels (both in the "normal" and "sub" zones) and absolutely stuff them with complicated areas and things, and.... never had any problems. The only limit I've ever even seen hit all that often is the "no more than 3 Bowsers" limit. Nobody ever seems to hit any other sort.

Now as for the slopes, I have to disagree; there's LOTS of levels that look really, really good, yet dont need slopes. Hell, I've been told that mine is pretty good looking in parts. Specifically my "Traditional Grasslands" level, which for me is the one with by far the most stars. Slopes to me never had all that much of a gameplay purpose.... all you can do is a somewhat-canned sliding action down them, which for the most part doesnt DO much of anything and typically requires a ton of space. Yes, you can take out enemies that way, but that's more of a set-piece thing than anything else; never been fond of that idea. Like those big loops in the old Sonic games; they didnt do anything whatsoever, they just existed so you could watch Sonic do a loop.

....also I somewhat suspect that the slopes arent in this because, if they were, people would spam the hell out of them, usually in really annoying ways. Something I've learned from so much time with LittleBigPlanet: Some features really are better left out in a creation-focused game like this, thanks to the general gaming public. There's enough bad levels out there already.

Also, as for SMBX: it's not discontinued. Well, by the original dev it is, which honestly is probably for the best... Someone else has stepped up and is making a new editor, which looks like it DOESNT suck, unlike the current one, which is one of the absolute worst nightmares of a program I've ever had the extreme displeasure to use (in case you cant tell, I dont like the current editor much). The new one can be messed with a bit, but it's not finished. The actual community for the game continues on as it ever did.

Back to the limits though, one major thing I've found, during not just my time with LBP, but also games like Doom (which I did alot of level making for), various PC games that feature editors, and some contract work for indie devs, is that you can very, very easily reach a point where, without really realizing it, you've gone overboard on some element. I've noticed this in Mario Maker, for that matter. I think the limit on doors is for one reason: 4 sets of doors is enough, simple as that. Often, it's MORE than enough, too much. I usually think that if someone is using THAT many doors in one zone, they've gone too far, and there was a much better/fun/interesting way that they could have done whatever overall concept they went with in the level. I've seen this in SMBX too; levels that do things like that, using a specific element too many times, tend to be the levels I find just irritating rather than challenging or fun. I can think of a few that used a pile of damn doors for instance that, well... I really just didnt want to bother finishing. Hell, that happens with Mario Maker. It's like, "okay.... I get it already. DOORS (or whatever). The game has them. Thank you for pointing them out 17 times in the level already. I now understand fully the existence of doors". Though, with Mario Maker, usually you can take "doors" in those sentences and replace it with "Lakitus". Ugh. Or spikes, if underwater.

Fortunately though, most of the game's elements arent too limited, even though I sometimes think there should be MORE limits (just how many goddamn Lakitus do we need in one place?!?). The main limits seem to be 1, vertical height, 2, doors, 3, pipes must always go between zones, and 4, no more than 3 of Bowser, though why in the bloody hell anyone would need more than 3 anyway is beyond me. I dont even want to know at this point, having seen so many of the bloody awful uses people have put him to.

The only limit that ever annoys me is the vertical height one, but.... ehhh. I have yet to come up with a level concept and not manage to find some way to squeeze it in there anyway. I use alot of vertical aspects in my levels (most of them).

Too bad they don't have a feature where you can upload your level but not have it be shown to the public and only people who can access it are the ones who have your course ID. I have an idea in my head about what level to create but I am concerned it will be taken the wrong way. I won't say what it is because I don't want my idea to get stolen but I had thought of a PC title for the level.

Also it sucks they don't have a search feature where you can put in certain keywords and also it sucks you can't put in tags for your level so users can find your level when they do a keyword search.


And there are troll levels in the game because people will make fake walls and platforms you fall through or have arrows that lead you the wrong direction or have doors that lead you to enemies or to the lava, same as with pipes or they make invisible blocks to trap you or make you get stuck on the level forcing you to start over. But 1-ups are pretty useless unless you are doing a 100 Mario Challenge but you can only earn up to three per course so the rest are useless.

I have created more levels since I last posted here so go check them out and star them to help me earn more medals and I will do the same for others in this thread. My son also created a course so it will be obvious which is his because I say so in the title.

When I use the basic ground block, I like to fill the spaces so I don't have these empty rectangles and shapes floating around. Especially for ghost house and castle levels, which seem to be what I mainly create.

This standard for aesthetics eats up blocks really quick. My argument for slopes is about 90% for aesthetic purposes and "realism" if you will, as little as that makes sense in the context of Mario, which is abstract to say the least. Still, it is nice to simulate hills. Even in SMB3 there were slopes and in grasslands levels these were used nicely where you could slide down and attack enemies while sliding. Some places there were little jumps at the end of the slopes where you were launched into the air.

But of course, this too would be overused, as everything else. It seems like spam levels go through phases. "This is my goomba section, so I just spam 20 of them here. Oh! Trampolines! I'll just place about 30 of them within this small space instead of distributing them intelligently over the entire level in a way that makes sense dynamically and thematically".

In light of those tendencies, I can certainly see how slopes could facilitate poor design as 90% of creators don't know that less is more and how to make the most out of little, by making enemies work together and with the terrain synergetically.

In regards to using up the ground blocks for filling in empty spaces, I did find a workaround using the background platform type tile, the one which you can walk through but jump up from underneath. There are some nice possibilities with that one, but it would make a lot more sense if we just had enough basic blocks to reach our aesthetic standard, I feel. I don't see how having infinite ground blocks could be detrimental as opposed to something confusing like trampolines, which seem to be a recurring spam element.

"expert" mode (my rant in the form of a joke tutorial):

almost impossible to dodge instant death: punish the player just for selecting/getting your level.

invisible block jump block: use the mario trail to place an invisible block at the height and beginning of every jump. also, trap players in lower ground by blocking them with the invisible blocks, forcing them to start over.

lakitus: never enough lakitus. use almost all the enemy space on them.

hammer bros: same with the lakitus. never provide any power-up. players love struggling to get through a barrage of hammers as tiny mario.

giant bowser tower: make sure all players must keep that single fire flower you supplied at the beginning so they can kill these things. put them under something so they can't jump and nobody can sneak under them.

precision jumps: everybody loves spending 20 lives trying to perfect a large series of jumps. put some spike traps around each platform for added precision.

sneaky thwomps: place thwomps out of sight and with no visible warnings down below.

chance door: another favorite. put down 4 sets of doors, and put 3 of them over instant death traps. also works with tubes or one-way blocks.

make it look sloppy: nothing makes people want to play a level more than random blocks placed and gaps in the ground.

do not test your levels: nobody likes it when the creator tests their own levels to make sure they work properly. players like getting stuck in weird places.


there is probably more i could add, but this is all i can think of for now.

Last edited by AdamAutistic on 13 Oct 2015, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Huh.... I've been doing the whole "fill in with blocks" thing myself as well (bugs the hell out of me otherwise) and I'm seriously just never seeing this happen. I do tend to have large blocks to fill, too. Like, if I've got a spot where I want something beyond a vertical wall, but I want the area to seem completely enclosed (so that you cant see past it even when Mario is touching the wall), I'll have to fill in an area about the size of a screen. No, just a bit less than the size of a screen. I do this pretty frequently, but... I still never hit the limits. I mean, really, I tend to STUFF my levels filled with things, for the most part. It depends on the level and what's going on; certain ones have used alot of blocks with a tendancy towards thick walls, some have used almost a more mazelike structure even when they're not a maze (hard to explain). I suppose I'd have to see what you're doing exactly to spot just how the limit is being hit.

And yeah, the "semi-solid platforms" can be really nice for decoration, I like those things. They have alot of different uses. One thing I liked doing in one of my levels was to create an "underground" area that technically isnt the underground theme, but is still the overworld theme; just covered the entire background of that section with that one that looks like a dark brick background. Ends up looking like the underworld, but it's all brown bricks and brown ground blocks (this all being in the original SMB) instead of the dark blue. I saw that a couple of times in the "10-Mario Challenge" levels too. I love the aesthetic of it.

I am hoping they'll add SOME sort of DLC to the game... since they said they dont want to make more objects, I cant imagine what it'd be though. Of course, they COULD always change their mind on that, but... no way to know for sure. I wouldnt mind an extra graphical theme for each of the four games though. Like, where's my snow and ice themed areas? They definitely covered all of the most important ones, but there's still some other types I'd kinda like.




Dont forget the ever-popular "leap of faith", where you're supposed to magically know where to jump towards when the ground is off-screen, because the creator doesnt understand that just because THEY know where it is, that doesnt mean the person playing it does. Ugh.

Or my own favorite, "give the player only half a mushroom for the entire level". It's like, dammitall, the game has all these powerups for a reason. You CAN create a really hard stage while still giving the player plenty of items to use. You seriously can. I've done exactly this, and I tend to stuff my levels full of items, because it's a Mario game, and getting powerups and such is part of the fun. And using them CORRECTLY is part of the challenge.

Also: ENEMY SPAM. Ugh. I haaaaate this. Particuarly Lakitu swarms, as you mention. There's a reason he only appears one at a time, in most situations in the series.

And lastly: Koopa jumps. Ugh. This isnt BAD, it's just BORING. You know, a long string of stomping on red flying Koopas to get across some wide chasm. It's like they ran out of ideas.

Many of those things you list, for me, are just insta-skip conditions, if I'm playing 100-Mario mode. There's a difference between "difficult" and "bloody stupid".

This is why I take so very, very long to make a single level, because I make sure to do NONE of these. That and I tend to test mine, over and over and over and over and over and over. Did I just tweak a single block? Yep, time to test it. That sort of thing. And while I like making challenging stuff, I figure, if the player isnt having fun with it too... what's the point?

100-Mario mode on Normal is mostly fine at least, and finding good levels via the "featured" tab is also easy to do. You can also try some of the ones in this very topic, if you'd like. I can always use some feedback on mine. I'm at 8 finished and uploaded levels right now, and nearing 200 stars. 9th level is nearly done, but as my first level that's mostly focused on a water area (as opposed to having a small water zone as a sub-area) it's slower to make since it presents unique design challenges. Have you made any yourself?

yes, i have made levels. i posted a level code eariler in this thread.



i thought of some new ones:

instant death door: (similar to the "chance door") nobody can resist a door, so place random doors in your level that only lead to death. your level will get huge amounts of praise for this.

fill it with special/sound effects: fill your level with irrelevant effects. make sure they are constantly happening throughout the entire level.

autoplay levels: make your level play itself! players love this, i mean it is not like this is a game that is meant to be actively played. as an added bonus, have the player get killed at the end.

misleading guides: use arrow guides or coins to lead players to a trap or instant death.

wall bombing: make a huge wall of breakable blocks and only supply a tube spawn of bob-ombs to destroy it.

Last edited by AdamAutistic on 13 Oct 2015, 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

I might be the weird one here but I can't stand auto play levels anymore. To me they are boring and take the fun out of the game. But they are useful for 100 Mario Challenge because you can take advantage of that course to advance to the next number stage because skipping levels keeps you at the same number stage.

Nah, you're not weird in that one I think. Alot of people are getting tired of them. They're basically the "clickbait" of Mario levels. They end up getting all of the stars that I think other levels deserve alot more. I always see so many stars on those damn things, but then I'll run into levels I think are pretty great, but have like, 2 stars, while an auto-level gets like 1000 really fast.

I cant stand the damn things myself, never could. I never star them, typically dont play them, and if they appear in 100-Mario I actually skip them, on general principle. It's like, just.... no. I dont want to, go away.... give me a REAL level. Or at least attempt to.

Not the first game I've encountered these in; that'd be N++, years ago. And have since seen them elsewhere too. Just... bah. They were neat the first few times, I remember, but I tired of them very fast.

Oh geez I hate that stupid bombing one. I hate it so much. It's one of those things that creates a ton of tedium. If it's to break through like, ONE layer of blocks, that's totally fine. Even I've done that before, though it was in an out of the way secret area and involved cannons instead of pipes. But having to VERY VERY SLOWLY drill through a huge thick wall is boring. There's a reason why giant Koopas just plow through bricks and such like they werent even there; they should be the tools for doing this, not 10000 bombs.

And that door one is just an instant-skip for me. Just... no. I'm sorry, it's an AWFUL design idea. Terrible.

just encounted a level using a glitch that makes soild blocks invisible and visible blocks fall-through. 0% clear rate of course as there was no way to tell where he put what where.

I wonder how they do that. I find those annoying but yet I would like to try some myself.

I think all your courses are pretty good and I keep starring them after I play them. But how did you get 81 stars, have you deleted some courses already?

After trying all of these, I cant imagine why you think your creativity is limited; these are all very good. Played and ended up starring all of them.

It really doesnt matter if you're basing a level off of something else... just make whatever comes into your head. That's really what this sort of thing is all about. If you're making the levels that YOU want to, you'll end up having them be that much better.

yes. i developed a really bad habit of uploading stuff, then a day later thinking of something i wanted to change.


now i always wait a full day from the last edit to upload. it seems to be working.
though i recently took down Zeldario to change the part that is now a boot.

but this change was a bit different. some of the more clueless players were having a huge amount of trouble with it, and i try to make my levels to be accessible to everybody.(it used to be that you have to get the buzzy beetle helmet to defend against cannonballs from above)




i guess i think it is because it takes me a long time to think of stuff to make. when i think of "creative" types, they are constantly shooting out new and innovative things.

i always say "well anything i make can't be as bad as all the empty garbage levels that already there." one level in particular that i remember was: max level length, a fireflower at the beginning, a huge empty space, and a single bowser at the end.

I'm guilty of the bob-omb wall gimmick...

If you hate that, then I have one level in particular that is going to annoy you a lot.

To my defense, I never made the blockades more than one block thick.

I'm going to fire up my Wii-U later today, write down the codes to my levels and share them here.

It would be interesting to hear some feedback, if you're interested in checking them out.
I'm going to give the levels shared here a try as well.

that is not a problem then. the stuff we are talking about are those huge walls. like 5 or more blocks thick.