Calling all Vault Dwellers and Warriors of the Wastelands

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Point taken, BUT to be fair, FO3 does make a few feeble attempts at being Fallout-like.

Plus without the success of FO3, (some of) the original Black Isle crew would have never have had the chance to make New Vegas...

I have high hopes that game will be very Fallout-like.

At any rate, I think New Vegas has a better chance of capturing the old Fallout magic than FOOL does... your mileage may vary.

I guess that's where you and I differ.

Sure, Fallout 2 isn't super serious, consistent and immersive... I understand some people need that sort of thing. I'm not one of them.

I don't think the job of great Science Fiction is to create a completely consistent, totally believable 'universe'. I believe the mark of great Science Fiction is its ability to comment on us, in the here and now, and provoke a few thoughts... By that measure, Fallout 2 is a great piece of Science Fiction and a great game.

I can understand why, and respect that you don't like Fallout 2. The difference is, you and I want and need different things from the game.

Who said that the things you want aren't included in what I want ?

Have you play Fallout 2 with the unofficial Fan restoration patch. Also, I was trying it with a resolution patch with intend to play FO2 in 1280x1024. It was well awesome. Then I reverted the patch because it messed with the game. =P Also, the most important thing about Fallout is the Canon. Lore and Canon. Have you check out MCA's Fallout Bible and the design docs for Van Buren "FO3"?

(If there's nothing else here in Fallout...then maybe a Wasteland sequel will come out in the next decade)

@monsterland

Ah... you're just greedy. I understand now.

@Ravenitrius

The last time I played FO2 was from original disks about two years ago...

I love Fallout lore and have read much of the fallout bible over at the vault (fallout wiki).

I did go over to 'no mutants allowed' and get the patch to fix the steam version of Fallout I'm playing currently.... Removing the children? That's just lame.

Last edited by GoonSquad on 24 Jun 2010, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Not to sound too elitist, but I call it "higher expectations". It baffles me when people say that integrity of a sci-fi universe doesn't matter to them.

Every universe HAS to have a set of laws. It doesn't matter how fictional they are, but what is VITAL is that they're consistent.

When these laws hold the world together, when you watch a movie taking place in the said universe, you can empathize with the hero, anticipate his problems, cringe at his solutions... because you BELIEVE it.

The LACK of consistent universe is what made Star Wars episodes I-III into a pointless lulzfest. What's the point of empathizing with a character when at any given moment George Lucas can write in WHATEVER THE F*CK he wants?

This is also why LOST sucked. Oh no, the heroes are in peril! The huge evil dude with a shotgun is about to kill them! What to do, what to do?!?!

Oh wait, some black smoke just appeared and broke the evil dude in half. Nevermind. Good job, protagonists, you sure solved that situation well with your Deus Ex Machina!

This is why its important to me that a world is consistent. This is also why I have low expectations for having a freaking fully functional LAS VEGAS in the wastelands. Shouldn't they have about a thousand better uses for all that electricity?

You see, when you create so much OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD SH*T, that cracks the universe at the seams, you can pretty much put anything you want in there now.

Have a quest where you have a moral decision on whether to kill a little girl? No problem! After killing her you'll discover that she's a robot who cannot be killed! Or whatever! Because we have sentient robots now because I said so! Just now! But not before! Not to nullify your emotional investment or anything!

Imagine if you're watching "Screamers", soaking in the awesome desolate atmosphere, when the protagonists climb over a hill and find a brothel for no reason. It has no reason to exist, it doesn't fit into the universe, it would require a ton of guards and resources and wouldn't be viable because nobody cares about brothels on that godforsaken colony on Sirius 6B.

But it would just be there. Standing there. Instantly annihilating any emotional investment you had in the heroes' journey, because apparently everything you thought about this world's mechanics up to that point was wrong.

"If you want to be a rock, be rock. Don't be a bug." - Joseph A. Hendrickson, "Screamers".

It's almost as if he knew what I'm talking about.

I would play it if I had a computer that would support the graphics.

I can think of worse ways to use electricity than scamming the "honest" folk of the wasteland out of their hard earned whatevermabobs. And its not like people in space don't want to get laid, especially on sh***y colonies in the outer darkness. Besides which, sex (paid for or otherwise) is one of THE major driving forces behind human history. Followed closely by gambling/pleasure. Add in a good war and you've pretty much got the point of humanity throughout history. Why leave all that out?

Hmm, there's a FAQ for FOOL.

Perma death? Oh boy! I am really looking forward to that feature. Now let's see how many people will complain about it!

Permadeath huh?

Now THAT might be interesting...

How 'bout gimping around for months with crippled limbs?

He he he! (mine is an evil laugh)

They can make it, but I probably won't play it. I'm not into MMORPGs. I've heard way too many horror stories about the general rudeness of online gamers to want to participate.
As they'll still make single player Fallout games, I won't care.

It would be kind of good to do something like a co-op play in a Fallout game which I might be more open to since you can have a friend play and know who you;re playing with.

Sure and then we can call a one headed brahim an omen.

This only makes sense once you redefine the concept of "Wasteland" as originally depicted in its namesake, followed by Fallout, with something that is no longer an actual wasteland, but just an empty term meaning "a space populated with people".

Wasteland is a dangerous place where people struggle to survive, and few lucky ones manage to grow crops on infertile ground. That was Fallout in 1997.



That wasn't my point. It was my point that having a brothel in Screamers would come in contrast with demands of their population, survival conditions, scarcity of supplies, and a thousand other factors. It would come in contrast with their own recreational area depicted earlier in the movie. Which would make the desperate mission to look for non-existent peace... rather odd. Strange. Unfitting.

You can't just insert random s**t into any universe just because it exists in the real world. Its very easy to break a universe.



You can have sex in a barely standing motel, and gamble pretty much anywhere. Neither requires giant expensive flashing lights powered by expensive generators. I don't think you understand world consistency.

That's not how a wasteland works. This is not how resources would be allocated in a wasteland, where having a roof over your head would be luxury enough, and having burger thats not made out of rats would make the place very special already. Why would anyone in that environment possibly try to recreate Las Vegas ripped out of current real life? The lights make sense in NORMAL REALITY context. They make zero sense in wasteland context. If there's a use for that electricity they should put it into an electric fence to guard the place.

The rest of electricity, nobody would dare waste. If there's gambling in the place, people will go there to gamble, no matter how sh***y it looks. That's how they did it in original Fallout.

See Mad Max 2, where the "bad guys" hoarded gasoline and wasted it just to prove that they could.

Or Mad Max 3 where they did the same thing with electricity (and exploited slave labor to keep it running). Or Waterworld with oil. Etc. etc.

After Fallout 1 and during Fallout 2, cities in the NCR and outside were thriving and expanding. Civilization is practically rebuilding itself in the middle of these wastelands. Resources once dwindled has become more abundant. That is what's going on in the post-aftermath of the fallout universe. Also wars which consist of NCR vs Brotherhood.

And I think you believe electricity is harder to generate than it actually is. Remember Mad Max 3 and the pigshit? Fallout contains large bovines, albeit two-headed ones, and if there is just one thing that large animals make in large quantities it is s**t. Even small animals generate it by the bucket-load. And that's if you're just using s**t to generate electricity. As I understand it the Fallout universe is liberally provided with a variety of esoteric machines with a variety of power sources, and even if it didn't, the technology and the knowledge would still be knocking around the place to be used one way or another. All the coal, oil and wood didn't just fade away overnight. Also, "expensive" is fairly irrelevant when you lack anything resembling a proper economy. "Waste" is also fairly irrelevant when you have the bones of a major civilisation to pick over, and a limited population to provide for. Who is there to "allocate" resources in a wasteland\/ Who would even THINK in those terms. Survival in a burnt world would sum up as "Where can I get water, food, shelter and laid without getting killed?..oo they have lights and heat over in that Vegas place. Maybe they would trade some of the food I worked really hard to grow on this infertile ground in trade for things I don't have..like a woman, which would incidentally mean that all THEY have to do is generate electricity whilst itinerant bums like me do the realy back-breaking work."

The "end of the world" would not in any way end our vices. I assume that, much like the real world Vegas, a Wasteland Vegas would be built specifically to act as a kind of honeytrap. "Come to Las Vegas. We have hookers and hot water!" Should be enough to fleece the average post-apocalyptic wanderer out of whatever they might have scraped together.

As for the "space brothel".. the fact that you CAN have a brothel in a shack is the very reason it would be easy to create and run. Shack, women, charging. Job done. Lights and such are just for advertising in THAT milieu.

Finally..you can make almost any meat a feast with the right seasoning. Rats are poor because there isn't much meat on them, and its likely to be grubby..but add curry powder and you have the same taste as the average saturday-night kebab. So yes, I totally grasp the concept of world consistency, especially as applied to a) humanity and the human condition and b) crappy "after-the-bomb" universes riddled with hopelessness and despair and poverty and starvation and mutants. Because nobody would EVER be interested in an escape from THAT life, obviously.... "Lights, hot water and a hot woman who might even only have two arms? Nah, tha'ts not for me. I'll stay here where the ground glows at night ON ITS OWN and live on maggoty potatos." Maybe you should think about the consistency of humans?