Eve Online

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Hey everyone. I'm new to this forum and thought I'd post something concerning Eve Online.

I'm not sure how many people on here play it, but I was curious.

It'd be pretty cool to add some friends on there from this site .

I tried it before but I drowned in the complexity, but I'd like to try it again if I had an experienced friend to help... And I suddenly got money.

I love it. Their new tutorial system made learning the game loads easier. I had two false starts before, but now I'm totally engrossed.

Yea, I was on and off a couple times.

Now all of a sudden I'm hooked.

I played it about a year ago, but kinda lost interest in it

is it in any way like World of Warcraft?

It's literally the complete opposite from WoW. The game is ran by the players, not quest givers or dungeon gear; that includes the economy which is 95% player driven.

There is also no servers, the entire game is just one server and regularly has over 30,000 people on it. Eve is all about corporations (eve guilds), fighting over land (space), and the in-game economy.

Watch these trailers if anyone is interested:



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU[/youtube]

I played Eve, but after my alliance - Atlas - died, I've lost interest and don't know people in game to play with anymore.

This game looks amazing. I heard of it before and thought it sounded rather cool. I saw my uncle playing a game once and I think it was EVE, he had a spaceship and was moving in a 3-dimensional space. He used a warp/hyper (Depending on if ur a starwars or startrek fan) drive and suddenly came out into a group of ships. I was sent out of his room at that point

Anyways if this game is the opposite of WoW then I'm in! If only I could afford it

I caution against the trailers done by CCP. They are nowhere near the reality of the game.

They do make AWESOME trailer videos and event videos though. And the game itself is truly impressive when it comes to graphics and programming.

It fails however, when it comes to gameplay. Badly.

You will never.. ever... be a match for someone that has played the game for some time. This is not like other MMO's where you level up and have a chance... here the other guy is so far beyond you in both money and trained skills you literally have no hope whatsoever.

Ships and equipment are broken into three 'castes' for all purposes. Tech 1, 2 and 3. Tech 1 is the standard run for equipment and ships. If you flying in a tech 1, you're either extremely broke or you are flying out to get killed just for kicks or your skills are not worthy of being mentioned.

Tech 2 is quite expensive set of ships and equipment. You need advanced skills (read: about 1 year worth of subscrition) to truly use them well (otherwise you're just wasting money). A tech 1 ship with tech 2 equipment absolutely dominates a tech 1 ship with tech 1 gear. there's just no comparison at all. A tech 2 ship absolutely dominates a tech 1 ship EVEN if the tech 1 has tech 2 equipment and the tech 2 ship uses tech 1 equipment.

The difference between tech 1 and 2 is exponential.

Tech 3... is just ballistic. You need to have insane skills (3+years training worth) and an insane amount of money to afford them. Obviously, these ships just stomp on everything else out there.

The problem with this? The majority of the players in the game are at tech 3 skill levels and at tech 3 monetary level. In essence, any participation you might want to do in PVP or even some solo PVE in profitable regions (prone to pvp) means you will -always- , ALWAYS lose.

If you want to join the game, buy a character (legit , service offered through the CCP website) that has over 20 million skill points trained. Otherwise you'll just be wasting your time.

Except for your point on CCP's trailers, I must disagree with you Dantac.

You will be a match for someone who has played the game for some time, just not immediately. Its not like other MMO's where you level up based on enemies killed or accomplishments, its all based on time, skill (mostly player skill, not ingame skill), and teamwork. When you are good at the game, and coordinate with your allies, even if the other guy is far beyond you in terms of ISK and ingame skills, he will have no chance whatsoever.

The T1 ship classes are (sub-capital, non-faction, listed small to big, non-industrial)
frigate < destroyer < cruiser < battlecruiser < battleship

Frigates/Destroyers are primarily noob ships, most people won't spend much time in them, but in the right hands they can kill t2 ships of the same size.
Cruisers are the first medium sized ship, decent customization and great in small fleets just not against t2 cruisers or larger.
Battlecruisers are one of the best pvp ships, very cheap (compared to many things) quickly obtainable for a new character, and surprisingly good in groups. Battlecruisers have a good chance to kill a bs 2v1, and can kill anything smaller (including t3 cruisers) solo. A decently skilled bc pilot will beat a t2 cruiser 90% of the time.
The T1 battleship is the bread and butter of large fleets, they are cheap powerful and insurable. If you are sieging a POS (player owned station), outpost, or are just camping a gate, a group of battleships (T1) will do more damage than anything else sub-capital.
T2 cruisers are prized because they are fast and far superior to t1 cruisers, but they cannot hold their own vs T1 BS or BC in equal numbers. T2 cruisers are also prohibitively expensive for the majority of people to fly 24/7, not that they are uncommon.
T2 battlecruisers are great for many things, but you won't see them in front-line pvp engagements in large numbers because of the price, as well as durability.
T2 battleships are primarily used for non-pvp, they are just far to expensive (even more so than cruisers/bc) to field against other players often.
The only t3 ships which currently exist are called "Strategic Cruisers" and are a whole different bag altogether, they are pretty much build your own ship. They are seen probably more often than t2 BS, in pvp that is. T3 cruisers are not substantially better than t2 cruisers in pvp, with the exception of people who spend ludicrous amounts of ISK on faction/deadspace (super-rare) equipment.


If you want to go to 0.0 security status space, you pretty much need to join an alliance. The various 0.0 reigions are occupied by a large number or alliances, most of which are allied with the larger more powerful ones. Simply put, if you expect to play solo in Eve, expect to stay in empire(high security space).

I am curious Dantac, how long did you play Eve? Your post reminds me of many conversations I've had with people who had played for much less than a full year. Really to get the full experience from Eve you need to play for at least 1-2 years.

Oh and just so my post isn't completely off topic, I'll mention that I played Eve from the end of 2004 to 2007, and probably about another year and a half since then, non-consecutively. I don't currently play, but when I pick it up again I'll look to see if anyone from here is at that time.

Thats a bit of a misnomer though. You will not be a match for someone who has been playing the game for some time for the simple reason that their skills, which grant them direct combat/defense bonuses are stacked up against you (big time). If we use any other MMO equivalent, its like a level 10 trying to go up against a level 30...both in-game bonuses wise and financially.

This 'coordinate' with you allies part translates into calling players that are higher than the other guy or as high in skill ratings in order to gang up on the target. Is that fun? sometimes. Problem is, the role you have in such gangs is nothing more than a bystander. Combat is blindingly fast and fleet combat itself requires you to have a really good set of skills and money.




Slight problem there. In order to get the weapon (t2's else you just wasted a ship), shield, armor, drone, resistance to damage type, engineering, etc etc etc skills to be able to do that you need a minimum of about 22 million skill points. Thats nearly a year+ playing time.

Ill skip the rest of the ship stuff you typed as it all still boils down to the fact that unless you join the game by buying an already skilled up character, you wont have any hope of participating in any meaningful way. The game is a very well designed, pretty timesink.

The PvE is fun at the start but then it becomes very monotonous. Trade? without 0.0 access you're a pauper forever.



and 0.0 space means that practically every hostile you meet is in a T2 vessel or a T2 kitted T1 ship whose pilot has far more skillpoints that you have. The only pilots you truly have a sort of equal chance against (meaning not dying in 5 seconds) are those who have around the same skillpoints. In 0.0 that practically never happens. In empire space, participating in faction warfare (which btw was a desperate attempt by CCP to try and retain players since SO many new players were simply quitting after being stomped upon repeatedly) you can have some fun but.. ultimately its just a sideshow.




5 years on and off since 2004 (Red Storm Rising I believe was the version back then when I started). Your last sentence nails down the why I caution against this game. The reality is that you not that you need to play for 1-2 years to get the 'full experience'.. you need to play for 1 to 2 years to start getting anywhere in the game.

I don't understand why you write the game off to newcomers just because you cannot compete with veterans immediately. What I am trying to say is if you do not have an extensive knowledge of the majority of ships/modules in the game, regardless of ingame skills you will fail... often. Even with that knowledge, and those ingame skills, there are plenty of no-win scenarios against low-sp pilots. I don't know what a pauper is, but the majority of trade in Eve happens inside empire because it is safe (for some). If you have ever been to Jita and 0.0 in the same day, this is abundantly obvious. If you need proof of this, log in and check the market history it is available ingame for every region, on every single item.

There is a forum on the Eve website where people post fan videos, or just videos of themselves doing pvp, I have seen multiple threads of people creating new accounts with a few friends and getting several kills per death. How could this be possible if the entire game is centered around trained skills? Another anecdotal story, back when I was a noob my godly rich corp mates were 2+ years ahead of me minimum, not to mention having hoards of cash. It took some time but within my first year I could beat some of them (1v1), and provide adequate support in pvp situations.

If you join a 0.0 alliance, the majority of enemies you see WILL be flying t2 ships, because t1 ships are generally to slow for 50+ jump incursions into hostile territory in anything smaller than a 20 man fleet. Try flying to hostile territory (or find a wormhole there) you will see plenty of t1 ships, as well as mining barges etc.

For the record, 22m skill points has you nearly (if not) maxed out to fly a battlecruiser and you can fly one with relative efficiency as low as 5m sp easily. A group of 3 noobs in cruisers could easily kill a vets battleship it has happened to me(and plenty of others). Also 'coordinate with your allies' means exactly what it says. Your allies do not have to be high skilled I did not say nor imply such a thing. in fact I stated the exact opposite: "even if the other guy is far beyond you in terms of ISK and ingame skills, he will have no chance whatsoever".

Combat may seem blindingly fast, but once you actually get the hang of it you will notice there is more to combat than press F1 wait for the boom. I am talking here of course about coordination, planning, loading the proper ammo, keeping your transversal or radial velocity within the tracking of your guns (or out of your enemies guns), managing distance and activating/deactivating several modules depending on what happens during the shooting, all of these things must be watched CONSTANTLY. Simply put, if combat in Eve for you boils down to 'he had a better ship/account'... you are doing it wrong.

A few links to discussions about the new player experience, and the importance of skills in pvp.

Discouraged from playing the game
New player, 1 month feedback re: pvp.
too late?
New Player stand a chance?

I could provide tons more links(there are countless new ones every year) to threads where people complain about how unfair Eve is to new players, and in every single one of them you would be able to find people stating that it is not the case, and providing (in most cases) reasonable and intelligent arguments as to why you are wrong. Eve is not a single player game if you treat it as such it will get boring quickly, and you will need ludicrous amounts of skillpoints to defend yourself in situations where a few low skilled pilots could together.

On a final note, I would like to point out that even with a maxed character and infinite ISK you will still most likely not effect Eve in a meaningful way. What I mean by this is that players have organized themselves into an oligarchy of sorts, where local alliances are supported by the large alliances, who are ruled by a small handful of people (who are not selected by the masses), So theoretically the only way to have a meaningful impact on Eve is to have some real life interpersonal skills and negotiate your way into power, which can be done without ingame skills or ISK. One does not necessarily have to make an impact, in order to have fun.

As far as my previous post being misleading please provide me some sort of proof or at least some anecdotal evidence because my experience with the game has been exactly as I stated and I have not misrepresented anything, it offends me that you claim I have.

Again, I point out to the fact that you keep mentioning a year's worth of time as the point where the game takes shape (newbie to 'mostly harmless' ).

Tell me seriously... if I suggested to you a game that has, hard-coded, a delay of one year in which you must pay subscription... before you can join the truly fun part of the game... would you buy it?

5m sp to fly a BC remotely close to effectively in pvp? no way. The engineering/armor/shield and weapons skills needed to barely survive in the things in PVE is beyond 5 mill sp.

Im not telling people not to get the game. Its a GOOD game. Im only saying that it is much better to save yourself lots of money by buying an already trained up character. a year's worth subscription plus the time you waste waiting for the training is not worth the end result.

Buy the 20mill+ sp character, spend 2 or 3 months learning the game (its really all people need to grasp all but the high end stuff) and ... enjoy the game.

"As far as my previous post being misleading please provide me some sort of proof or at least some anecdotal evidence because my experience with the game has been exactly as I stated and I have not misrepresented anything, it offends me that you claim I have."

here's the misleading part: "You will be a match for someone who has played the game for some time, just not immediately."

I can tell you for a fact that anyone who buys the game now and 6 months later tries to go into the first tier of pvp: Faction war will not be anywhere close to a match for someone that has played for 1 year and certainly no hope vs a 2+ year player.

Anecdotal? Sure. My character's main specializations were down the caldari line and minmatar. I had full training in hybrid weapons small and medium as well as all missiles up to box5 T2 (both rail and blaster), full engineering skills in shield and armor, full electronics skills (i was a bomber pilot and recon) and full skills for caldari interdictor 5.

Several occassions I would merely load up a T1 cormorant destroyer with T2 small railguns & their ammo and with my trained skills and T1/T2 gear (no rare/expensive stuff), no implants, no boosters I could shoot out to nearly 80km's. With that I would easily rampage through the faction war areas wiping out hostiles before they could even get within range to lock on to me.

The people playing faction war at that time were relatively new players... 6,8 months maybe a 1 year player every now and then. Thing is, they could not match the massive performance advantage i had by default. Even the year old players just didnt have either the electronic skills to have enough range to lock on to me, or didnt have enough engineering skills to survive the damage my guns were dealing or didnt have the weapon skills to wear down my shields before i would pop them. And believe me, these people would try hard to take me down..even after I would tell them my ship's fit and would launch in a matching setup they still could not do it. After a couple of hours they would just give up or call in someone who had much higher skills than me who would in turn, come in a small ship and obliterate me within seconds.

so.. yeah. that 'just not immediately' part does not match the reality of the game when you consider the actual numbers involved. Social/political elements involved in alliances and 0.0 and stuff don't come into play there. Fact remains, you are only able to be a match for someone within 0.5 to 1.5 mill SP of you.

You keep insisting that the game requires an entire year before it is playable and that is simply not the case. Many of the most fun battles I have had were in t1 cruisers/BC cheap ships with unique setups. To answer your question btw, I might be interested in such a game you describe but it would very clearly depend on why the game was structured that way, the gameplay mechanics available during the first year, and how much free time I had at the time. I would not bother waiting a year to play a run of the mill game, or anything in anyway involved with Electronic Arts.


Haha that 5m number I gave earlier was off the top of my head, and it was a highball at that. I updated my copy of Evemon (standalone Eve skill planner application) just to double check and as it turns out you can fly a drake (hyperlink to described setup) (tier 2, tech 1 caldari BC) with t2 missile launchers/ammo, t2 shield hardeners/extenders, t2 weapon damage mods, a t2 damage control unit, a t2 warp disruptor, t2 light drones, and medium shield rigs all at under 4 million skillpoints. I won't bother to list off every single skill on the plan, but suffice to say it has all of the requisite support skills in order to fly it properly at level 3 or 4 depending on the usefulness of the skills individual bonuses. The few I will list are: Engineering/Electronics at level 5, all missile support skills at 3 or 4, capacitor/shield capacity skills at 3-4, signature analysis 4, hull upgrades 4. Now the stats on this ship with these skills might be 5-10% lower than a maxed out 5 year old pilot, but the above setup takes 2 months to train almost exactly and the marginal differences in stats can easily be made up for (and then some) by player skill/tactics.

I spent at least the last 50% of my time playing Eve in a few 0.0 alliances and let me tell you the shield buffer tanked heavy missile launcher drake is a wildly popular and effective ship for small-med scale pvp. One tactic which was used by some of the better invaders of our space was having 10-15 drakes along with shield logistics ships. The scimitars/basilisks mwd very fast 30-60km away from the main group keeping an angular velocity high enough medium/large turrets won't hit them while the drakes WTFBBQPWN anything in sight (including small-med bs fleets w/o logistics) while being remote shield boosted. I read the quarterly economic newsletter a few weeks ago that CCP's on staff economist published and the drake is something like the 3rd most piloted ship in Eve.



Seeing as my previous skill plan took 2 months, another 4 should allow specialization into at least one other ship type most likely intercepters/cov ops.

So that (see drake paragraph) pretty much debunks your theory about Eve requiring a substantial time investment in order to participate in a meaningful and effective way. I am not denying if you want to fly a dread or titan (or even a well equipped battleship) that it cannot be done in a short few months, without purchasing a character to do so but succeeding in pvp at an earily stage in a characters 'life' is entirely possible and has been proven so by many in the Eve community, it simply takes proper skill plans, ship setup, battle strategy, and game knowledge.




Your tactic of sniping with a poorly equiped cormorant may work against people who don't know what they're doing, but a cormorant won't kill anything larger than a frigate unless they're afk or ratting, and it won't kill a competent inty pilot unless you get extremely lucky. A competent Taranis pilot (using a dual prop, small t2 ion blaster setup with a scram) flying at odd angles towards you to keep his angular velocity up ensuring you cannot hit him will be within scramble range (which now disables mwds) in about 25-30 seconds. The cormorant (with level 5 skills, and no inertia mods) takes 4.4 seconds to align and warp out if you are not already aligned, a bit less if you are which is unlikely if you are sniping at a gate, or belt. So you have 21-26 seconds to initiate warp, or you are scrambled and pretty much dead. Under ideal circumstances the Taranis with 1 weapon damage mod, and 2 weapon damage rigs (with 2x hobgoblin II's) can deal an average of 259 dps according to EFT, now the maximum EHP (effective hit points) of a cormorant without plates or extenders is around 3.4k which means you would die in about 13 seconds of sustained fire from a taranis, make it 26 accounting for missed shots. So from start to finish you would die in around 54 seconds to a competent taranis pilot, of far less than a years age(assuming you didn't warp within 26 seconds of seeing the taranis). I should note, even if you have a scrambler, the taranis' afterburner will still easily allow him to go faster than your railguns can track.




This entire block of text screams 'ignorance of game mechanics' to me. Locking range if governed by a single skill, long range targeting which gives a 5% bonus per level (a rank 2 skill, btw 5% of the cormorants base targeting range is only 1.8km). The only modules which effect targeting range are sensor boosters and signal amplifiers, and unless a ship needs a fast locking time and/or is sniping they will not equip these modules. Engineering only has a single skill which effects ship hp, which is shield management (5% per level again), there are however armor and hull flavored skills with the same bonus in other skill trees. A destroyer is a small ship, and you won't be killing cruisers or bigger with it unless your opponents have a severe misunderstanding of how the game works, even a mining barge has enough EHP to warp away before you kill it, so your only targets would be small ships(frigs/destroyers). The fact that you told your opponents the exact setup you were using and they could not devise a counter, proves you were not fighting the kind of person who is capable of succeeding in Eve in any short amount of time. I am clearly not talking about everyone when I say a newb can win at Eve, as I said before it requires actual skill at playing the game, as well as a good deal of knowledge to be able to counter your opponents setup which is something these opponents of yours were clearly lacking. I also want to add that the strategy I mentioned earlier about shield logistics coupled with drakes will work just as effectively in low security (faction warfare/piracy) as it will in 0.0.

TLDR
Why don't you consider the numbers involved from a point of view other than your own? I could do 95% less damage than you, have 95% less hp but if my radial velocity (relative to you) is faster than your guns can track but slower than my guns track, you will die and I will live. Railguns (slow tracking) vs blasters (faster tracking), its only one example of many game mechanics in Eve where accumulated skillpoints do not decide the fate of a fight. Oh and if you warp out before he gets into blaster range, thats called retreat which is victory by default for the newbs character (since you refused to fight).

Disclaimer
Reading back on my post I feel I may have come off like a jerk at points, but I want it to be clear I am not tryng to be derogatory to anyone (neither noobs, nor you Dantac). This post (and the previous ones) are simply my opinions supported by the best facts and anecdotes I have, in the most concise and clear way possible. Also if you have a hard time believing you can fly said drake with decent skills at the stated skill point level, I can upload my evemon saved skill plan but TBH it would be a pain and I'm not sure how to do it right off hand.