Rome Total War

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Wow! this game is freaking amazing

When I think of 2004-2006 I often think of the hundreds of hours I put into that game and its expansions. I still love it dearly. Being able to play as Carthage was like my childhood fantasy come true

Really why Carthage? was that a childhood special interest or something? I love Roman history which is what made this game amazing for me. I like to play the Rome Total Realism mod, its so muh more expansive and in depth I cant get enough. The only problem is that the Roman units like the Hastati, Principes and Triarii are overpowering compared to the Barbarian factions like Gaul and Germania. Also barbarian factions only get basic roads and their cities cannot get as big as the
civilized" factions.

Oh yes. I have written a few papers on Carthage even, ranging from what archaeological evidence is left of its urban planning to the transition from Kings to the famous oligarchy
I'm not 100% sure why I became so fascinated with Carthage, perhaps because it was so totally obliterated, and yet in my opinion at least, was a civilization equally as interesting as Greece or Rome. Its sort of like that third part of the central Mediterranean triangle of civilizations that tends to get overlooked by people. I also love Roman history. They're real hard to fight against in R:TW, possibly because they are 3 factions . I totally agree though the Barbarian factions are underpowered. I find them all a bit to homogeneous as well as most of their units are somewhat interchangeable. I haven't tried R:TR I keep meaning to. I'm slightly ashamed to say I have never modded any of my TW games and I've been a fan for 10 years now

heres the mod I play. its SOOOOO much Like 50x better than the original version...like you said in the original most of the units are interchangable and generic looking. This mod makes everything more unique and the map is expanded. To install all you do is have an updated version of Rome total war and execute the file. it does everything for you. hope you enjoy it if you decide to do it

http://www.rometotalrealism.org/index-2.html

I think Carthage is very interesting as well. Its total destruction makes it easy for us to forget its place in history as well as the fact that they were defeated by the Romans who defeated pretty much everybody else- it makes Carthage just one of the group, one that got destroyed early on when Rome was just starting to expand into Gaul and North Africa.

I find that Queen Dido of Carthage is a key figure in ancient Greco-Roman history. Her getting involved with Aeneas of Troy (who later founded Rome) just facinates me because it means these early civilizations had intimate contact with each other.

I also find it amusing, well not amusing as its conquest, but rather interesting that Aeneas is a Trojan prince who was the original founder of Rome with what remained with his defeated Trojan army. The Greeks raze Troy and destroyed the nation...only to have its general flee and found a city which eventually would conquer Greece later on and the rest of the Western World.

I wish the Romans had kept more of the Carthaginian records. Very little of their first-hand history is available. Mostly the Romans only kept agricultural treatises, because Carthage was well known for its advanced farming techniques. I wonder what kind of epics the Carthaginian poets wrote? I suppose we may never know

what language did the Carthaginians use, Phoenician or some NOrth African language? Where is Phoencia anyway....

also since you seem to be an expert at this, how was Carthage started and what became of the city after Rome defeated its armies? i know they salted its ruins so nothing could grow there again but that could be another city im thinking of.

Phoenicia is where modern day Lebanon is. They were the Greek's main competitors for a long time in colonizing the Mediterranean; basically, three city states, Tyre, Sidon, and Byblos, are their best known cities.
Carthaginians themselves spoke a dialect of Phoenician the Romans referred to as 'Punic'. Though they had many subjects who spoke other languages, such as the Libyans, Numidians, Berbers, peoples of Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica, Malta, the Balearic isles, and Spain. Actually its kind of amazing Hannibal was able to command an army so effectively out of so many disparate languages spoken by its mercenaries
Carthage was probably founded around 815 BCE, that is the traditional date at least. It wasn't a major colony for a while, older colonies like Utica were much more important. But Carthage's great location inevitably won out. They were situated on a large isthmus near Tunis, and they walled the whole thing off, a vast area, much bigger then any other contemporary city. It had a large hill in the middle that was fortified, much like comparable Greek acropolis, and they also had huge man-made harbors and a lighthouse
Rome managed to defeat them three times. The first time they lost their holdings in Sicily and Sardinia; the second time, after Hannibal's defeat, they lost all of their territory except for an an extended area around the city. Even at this point they were still richer then the Romans, even though they were essentially a tributary. Some Romans were not happy that their old enemy was still so successful; they incited the nearby Numidians to raid Carthaginian settlements outside the city walls. Part of the peace treaty enforced on Carthage stipulated they could defend themselves but any movement of troops outside their limited borders would lead to a Roman declaration of war. So when they complained to Rome and asked for permission to attack the Numidian camps just outside the border, and the Romans refused to let them or do anything themselves (as they essentially set the whole thing up), the Carthaginians armed themselves and defeated the Numidians. The Romans then declared war in 149 BCE and invaded Africa; for a time the Carthaginians fought them in the field but eventually they retreated into the massive triple curtain wall. The Romans laid siege for three years and eventually breached the city and fought for seven days, house to house. They eventually won and slaughtered most of the inhabitants. The survivors were sold into slavery... 146 BCE, one of the first recorded genocides in history
The legend about the salting is actually not true. Salt was so valuable back then that wasting it on Carthage's burned remains might have bankrupted Rome, lol
I think 100 BCE the Romans resettled the area, and eventually refounded Carthage (though it had nothing to do with Punic Carthage, and was never as large; it was built somewhat to the south of the old ruins). It became one of the most important cities in the Western Empire, and one of the first major cities to embrace Christianity. The Vandals captured it by the 5th century CE, making it their capital. It finally met its end, again, at the hands of the Arabs in the 8 or 9th centuries, not sure, eventually being refounded a third time. It has never regained its prominence since then, Tunis became a much more important city. There is a modern day suburb of Tunis called Carthage though. In fact the presidential palace is in Carthage if I'm not mistaken. I hope this wasn't too long winded of a read lol

I think there should be a Total War: Rome 2. Well if Shogun gets one. Rome should get one. Rome was indeed addicting. Spent months playing it like crazy while in high school.

I was kind of disappointed they went with Shogun 2 over Rome 2. Somebody will probably make a Rome mod for it though. I'm surprised there isn't one for Empire or Napoleon; there are actually galley units in those games, which are most notable for their naval battles. I can see them reworking Empire into Rome with naval battles. That would be seriously hardcore. Replaying the Battle of Salamis? Or the various huge naval battles between Carthage and Rome? Yes please

I'm a big RTW fan and a Carthage fan too...

Hannibal actually defeated the Republic (by displacing all those Italian farmers and greatly expanding the Roman mob) it just took about 170 years too long.

The Extended Greek Mod is another great RTW mod.
http://homepage.mac.com/abradbury/XGM/

lol I've never looked at it that way, good point. I wouldn't be surprised if in some isolated Tuscan village, they still talk about Hannibal as the bogeyman, which was standard for more then 1000 years after the 2nd Punic war

Heh, I'm sure many a Roman mother used threats of Hannibal to dispose of overcooked eggplant..

My western civ professor was big on cause and effect. He had this big spiel about the fall of the Roman Republic that started with Hannibal and displaced peasants, led to failed Gracchi land reform, to partisan politics, to the Marian reforms, to Marius vs Sulla, to....

you get the idea.

thanks for that summary Vigilans, it was very informative and interesting!