Human evolution, Females vs. Males

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Helek_Aphel
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11 Nov 2007, 7:42 pm

KoiInAFrozenPond wrote:

hi!

Let me tell you this, aspergers is far more common among males than females, that is an undeniable fact.

I´m a male myself and I do believe that I have Aspergers. I have not been diagnosed with it.

In my opinion, males are in general more intelligent than females.....do you agree?

Womens (in general) are more driven by instinct than males. In my opinion males are more evolved
than females and males are more aware than females.

On a side note, when i´m in a room for example, I can always tell when there is a woman there that is genetically in the top of the woman genetic spectrum, in other words, she´s "girl-y-girl-y" so to speak.

I think asperger is caused by evolution and the fact that the human race is constantly getting "smarter" and more intelligent in all possible ways.

In my opinion, the white male is the most evolved creature on earth (do you agree?)

the white male is therefore the creature that is most likely to develop aspergers syndrome.

So basically my questions are, do you agree with me that males are in general more intelligent, smarter, more evolved compared to females in general?

I know that females and males are different, so thats not my question. Also, I only hate females slightly more than males. (generally speaking) :roll:

I have 1 more opinion/theory, I believe that white humans are more evolved than black humans, do you agree with that or do you disagree?

this post is not made to offend anyone, to me this is burning questions that I have sought opinions on for a long time in my life.

Are people today to afraid to state that they believe white humans are more evolved than black humans because of political reasons, for example afraid of being labeled a racist?

What do you say people? I really would like to know you're opinions about this....

sh**, Ive got a bad case of this disease........ :wink:

....kidding

First, I can deny the idea that more males have Asperger's than females, considering the greater difficulty in diagnosing females because of differences in how the syndrome manifests itself and the stronger counter of feminine social rules to the syndrome.
I disagree with the idea that males are more intelligent than females.
I doubt it matters whether white or black people are more evolved.
I don't even accept macroevolution (not that too much would change if I did...)!
That's my opinion.
I imagine we will now continue on in the topic without my post affecting anything.

ascan
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12 Nov 2007, 6:44 am

monty wrote:

Really? The government has laws to stop you from freely speaking?

Yes, in the UK they do.

monty wrote:

But (if you have read any of the Supreme Court cases on affirmative action), quotas and outright preferences are legal only to remedy a blatant pattern of illegal discrimination.

Not in the UK. I'm sure the leftists in your country are pushing for the same there.

monty wrote:

You are also assuming that there is a correlation between intelligence and being employed. Not sure that is a strong correlation. Motivation and opportunity seem to be more important IMHO.

Well, you concede there is a correlation. It stands to reason: the lower your IQ, the less options for employment there are.

monty wrote:

It's like the old assumption that there is a correlation between intelligence and income. Yet there are plenty of very smart people that prefer a not-so-well paying job in academia, while average people with hustle can do quite well financially.

Yes, but someone in academia with an IQ of 130 will be earning a lot more than someone with an IQ of 70. The latter likely having to be content with minimum wage or unemployment. Moreover, there's a trade off between intellectual fulfilment and earnings. You could say that fulfilment is a form of remuneration. I believe in my previous posts I used the word "achievement" to encompass such an idea. Even so, I've no doubt that within a certain IQ range there's a correlation with earnings.

Angelus-Mortis
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12 Nov 2007, 11:02 am

ascan wrote:

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

...And? I'm afraid that I don't get what you're getting at...

Indeed, it appears not.

The importance is in averages. I'm not saying one race is stupid and one clever. I'm saying that if you take 1000 people from one race and 1000 from another then the average intelligence (measured by some IQ system based on a large sample of the world population) for each of those groups will be different. Now, if you separately use some other yardstick to measure achievement of individuals in those groups then the average will also be different between the two groups in a similar way to the intelligence average. This is because intelligence correlates with general achievement in society (work, education etc.).

The problem is that governments collect statistics on race and achievement. You'll often see things in the news like: "20% of the unemployed in the city are black" This may be given in the context of blacks, for example, only comprising 15% of the city population. This raises the question, in this example, of why there are more unemployed blacks (as a proportion). Inevitably it's put down to racism and discrimination. Nobody dare suggest it's anything else. But what if it is something else? What if it's the IQ difference I was explaining? Of course, governments don't collect statistics on IQ (at least not that they'll admit); perhaps they should!

Consider this (yet again):

ascan wrote:

Governments collect statistics like this to pacify the PC lobby; it's then used to "prove" we're all racist. They then legislate to restrict our freedom of speech on the matter, and give preferential treatment to the "victims" of the "racism" at the expense of the rest of us. That helps nobody longterm.

But do these statistics take into consideration the education that black people might have had; ie, did they go to school or not, were they being teased while they were at school, and therefore couldn't do well, or weren't allowed to graduate because the school discriminated against them, and therefore, couldn't go to university, etc? How do we know that these statistics tell us whether or not it was racism or they simply weren't smart enough?

You can't really use IQ as a correlation with employment--to a certain extent. Someone with average IQ could still end up going beyond university and getting a nice job--which is why I mentioned the people who buy those SAT books. They don't make you smarter, nor do you need to be smart to use them; you can, however, use them to ace the SAT test or use whatever university or school resources are available to help you ace an exam or course that you might otherwise have trouble with. And even if you did have a high IQ, that doesn't guarantee you'll get a job. There are plenty of people with high IQ's who don't get a job because they are socially awkward or don't get along well with their co workers, and conversely, there are people with average IQ's who get jobs easily because they get along better with other people. So this is only really a problem if black people on average have an IQ score that is significantly below average. Which I highly doubt.

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ascan
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12 Nov 2007, 2:50 pm

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

...There are plenty of people with high IQ's who don't get a job because they are socially awkward or don't get along well with their co workers, and conversely, there are people with average IQ's who get jobs easily because they get along better with other people...

But if you have two socially awkward people then, all other things being equal, if one has a higher IQ he'll have more options open to him, so will be more likely to find employment.

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

...So this is only really a problem if black people on average have an IQ score that is significantly below average...

So, you're another to finally accept in principle what I'm proposing. And if it's "a problem", by definition it's observable, and if it's observable for large differences in intelligence I'm pretty sure it will be observable statistically in large samples for more subtle intelligence differences.

Oh, it's probably a bit misleading to keep using the word "black". In principle it applies to any people who've been relatively geographically isolated from each other up until recently.

Tim_Tex
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12 Nov 2007, 3:01 pm

I have no way of telling or knowing if males or females are smarter.

Tim

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LePetitPrince
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13 Nov 2007, 2:12 pm

what a load of crap

Angelus-Mortis
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13 Nov 2007, 4:35 pm

ascan wrote:

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

But if you have two socially awkward people then, all other things being equal, if one has a higher IQ he'll have more options open to him, so will be more likely to find employment.

But the converse is true too, and is more popular. If you have two people of equal IQ, but one of them fits into society better, they will choose the one who does fit in better. And because the person hiring you is most likely more concerned about how you work with others than how smart you are, if you have two people competeing with one person having a lower IQ but better social skills, and the other person having a higher IQ but lesser social skills, they'd rather have the former. At the very least, they'd prefer to train someone who's willing to listen than to train an as*hole who thinks they know everything and thinks they don't need to be trained.

Quote:

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

...So this is only really a problem if black people on average have an IQ score that is significantly below average...

Well, is it? Because I seem to recall there were few people with IQ scores below 100 (or average, I suppose), in which case they would definitely be labelled as having a problem, meaning they would have problems with learning and communicating. But most people are naturally born with some talent in communicating, regardless of their IQ score, and shouldn't have any problems getting a job.

I would also like to ask you if the statistics you presented only applies to USA, and not other countries, like Canada. Is it true too that there are more black Canadians that are unemployed than others?

Sedaka
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13 Nov 2007, 7:32 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

I have no way of telling or knowing if males or females are smarter.

Tim

that could arguably support that women are smarter, then :wink:

jk, just had to say it though lol

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greenblue
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13 Nov 2007, 11:14 pm

Reodor_Felgen wrote:

Men and women are equally smart, they just think different.

I agree, I recently saw a documentary saying that the brain are anatomically different from men and women in some areas, making processes in a different way in the same part of the brain, the conclusion was that both sexes are capable of the same things and tasks, making them equally smart and intelligent, it is just that the processes of doing some tasks are different internally, but having the same results in the end.

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KoiInAFrozenPond
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14 Nov 2007, 5:53 am

Its not rocket sience. Blacks have smaller brains than white people and females have smaller brains than males. Apes have smaller brains than black people.

That is true, just look it up.

So, lets all agree about the obvious now and move on with our lifes, shall we?

the end.....

Angelus-Mortis
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14 Nov 2007, 10:57 am

This argument is not over until you can dig up the scientific article where you read this. Otherwise, none of us are buying it.

snake321
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14 Nov 2007, 12:53 pm

ascan wrote:

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

...And? I'm afraid that I don't get what you're getting at...

ascan wrote:

..... Well like someone else said, the individual pathologies of genetics makes it an error to ever judge a person's abilities or intelligence by the color of their skin.... But I understand what your trying to say though, dealing with statistics. So, statistically speaking I have noticed that different races have different strengths and weaknesses. White people are better organized and more intelligent, statistically, than blacks, but whites are also huge trend whores, and lack the ability to be as agressive in standing their grounds on issues than what many blacks are..... Ever notice how blacks really stick together? Sometimes it can get a bit far, if theyr defending another black person JUST because their black without looking at the facts in an argument, however they are by far not the pushovers much of white society is. Sometimes the smart thing to do is not the passive thing.
Like I said though, asians and jews are statistically smarter and more productive than regular white people too. So that would mean statistically we'd be number 3.

snake321
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14 Nov 2007, 12:55 pm

Whites are more organized, asians are more progressive, blacks are more firm, hispanics are hard workers...... Bear with me I know what I'm trying to say here, I'm just having a hard time wording it.

snake321
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14 Nov 2007, 1:15 pm

Maybe these are the words I was looking for, or maybe not..... But perhaps it's that statistically, different races have different types of intelligence. I have noticed that minority ethnicities are often more prone to group think structures such as religion than white people are, but white people are also some of the biggest trend whores on earth and will jump on whatever bandwagon floats their way.
Ethnics do have higher poverty rates around the world, but I think this is more about culture and economics than race. In Africa, pick any random starving nation, theyr land is FULL of gold, diamonds, and/or oil, yet their people go hungry while the top 2% of their nation, the government, live like kings. It is safe to say greedy governments are holding their own people down over there.
ethnic unemployment rates in the US are largely due to a culture that beats the message into their heads through such outlets as BET that theyr not supposed to be intelligent, or that the only way they can make it is by playing basket ball, selling drugs, or becoming a rapper. I'm of coarse not saying racism is dead in America, it is still alive, but it's not as big as the BET culture wants them to think it is. If anything, blacks have risen up since 9/11..... The main group who are discriminated now are arabs, and I can't figure out why the blue hell arab rights are not gaining any coverage in America (well actually yes I can, it's not about getting along or keeping an open mind with our media and politicians, it's about what will make them cash and how to divide the people)....

ascan
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14 Nov 2007, 1:35 pm

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

But we're not talking about social skills, we're talking about intelligence. There are socially skilled smart people, and those who are not so. True, both intelligence and social skills are component elements in whether an individual is employable, but in examining intelligence we need to remove the social component, and in this case it seems reasonable to assume that social skills will show a similar distribution in two groups of different IQ (assuming there's not a huge IQ difference). In fact, if anything, I expect you'll find that higher intelligence and better social skills correlate to improve employability: smarter people are more likely to be socially adept (yes, there are exceptions, as with people with AS, but generally speaking that seems a reasonable proposition).

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

Generally speaking, the IQ of a population is distributed symetrically about the mean of 100. Most people fall within +/-15 points of that. In a large enough sample there will be as many above as below the mean. If you take a specific sub-group from that population, then the distribution may be shifted to the right or left. From that basic description you should be able to get an impression of the significance of the magnitude of IQ differences reported in some studies of sub-Saharan Africans (15 to 30 points)

Angelus-Mortis wrote:

I would also like to ask you if the statistics you presented only applies to USA, and not other countries, like Canada. Is it true too that there are more black Canadians that are unemployed than others?

I don't recall presenting too many specific statistics, just generalisations that reported the gist of what i've read in various books and internet articles. If you dig around you can find out for yourself and form your own opinion.

KoiInAFrozenPond
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14 Nov 2007, 3:36 pm

[quote]Gould elevated this disagreement on one of the findings into a morality play. (Mall "became suspicious"; "prior prejudice dictates conclusions"). What Gould neglects to tell us is that Mall himself (p. 7) reported a Black/White difference in brain weight of 100 grams and that he did not refute the data on racial admixture or on complexity of convolutions.
[quote]

So there you go, straight from da internets. enjoy.

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