Can we AS sufferers reproduce with a clean conscience?

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You could just take Zoloft, it's what my Dad takes for his extremely short temper.

Personally I'll never have children for the same reason you've given.

Absolutely.

That's true IMO maybe 80% of the way. I think the trouble is our natural urges though aren't fully on enough to get the whole scope optimized though and its because one on one, we're thinking in the extremely finite - ie. ourselves with one other person (then again a guy could be thinking bang em and leave em but I know at least a few guys who are shelling out child support to maybe 4 or 5 different mothers - that's not a life most people would want by any stretch). So the end result I think turns out that we'll get the obvious healthy traits but a lot of the things that are beneficial in smaller doses, whether its half the sickle-cell gene for certain benefits or one or two autism related genes for heightened accuity; don't get brought back into the mix easily.




You remind me a lot of myself in that respect. Fighting my social end of the problems, my coordination issues, my presence, etc. was a life and death of honor issue IMO for years. Probably as well because at heart I was always much more like the alternative in-crowd than I was like anyone else, I identified with them to a rediculous level, and I came to the conclusion that any traits that I really looked up to in other people were my own traits that I just hadn't fully developed - that helped to an extent but it came crashing down hard as I found my own limits with this. You can push against those limits all day long, maybe make a little bit of progress, but its like pushing against a giant rubber band, the effort just get one more inch of progress needs measures that can make you physically if not emotionally ill, and the second you let up a bit its as if it all gets lost again. Disgusting, I still can't get my heart around it nor am I ok at all with that circumstance, but I'm realizing I need to find some kind of compromise because I'm worried that I really do what I'd set out for - either get there or do the only honorable thing otherwise which is destroy myself in the process of trying.

What's wrong with that? It only seems "wrong" because of the way society operates, and because autistic children are sometimes raised in families that either don't acknowledge that problem or deal with it appropriately.

Furthermore genetics is complicated. Can you guarantee that everytime you want a child, and you have Asperger's or autism, that you will have an autistic child? Furthermore, it's entirely possible for normal families to have Asperger's children as well. You cannot predict what kind of children you are going to have, and to not reproduce at all just because there's a chance your child might have Asperger's, but is not guaranteed is ridiculous.

Besides, there are lots of things that wouldn't have happened now without people who might have Asperger's.

Defection is relative.

:: shrugs:: nah your just seeing that I'm not a blind believer of anything no matter the cause in a world where a real unbiased opinion is a rare thing I'd choose not to follow a banner just because everyone seems to think that evidence is behind it when that evidence cannot be proven revelant. For all the distaste you have for religious zealots in science you are that zealot. I'm just the guy who chooses not to foolishly discount something based on an egotistical notion that an explanation of repeated processes depicts anytime of understanding of the machinizations of the world at large.

If you don't want to think your special or what not thats your thing. I on the other hand don't want any regrets when I die so I will live how I want and I will not follow any forcefed subjects just to be accepted or "cool" I'll find my own truths, experiences, theories, and etc because I know I'm smart enough to make such determinations without blindly following a topic. In the end the best thing in the world is being happy with who you are and I'm sorry whether I have AS or not I am the man I want to be and if anyone doesn't like that it's their problem. I don't have time to slow down because others want me to slow down I got things to do.

Last night in our little debate I was worknig on hree things at once. Time is too short for bs and since you've properly delusioned yourself isn't that the pot calling the kettle black or do you have such an illegitmiate leg to stand on you'll just find any thread and try to bash people who show the signs of individuality. In the end its whatever but btw I sent ya a message in regards to me thinknig the media thread was the rabid atheists thread. Its an aplogy for my misunderstanding that it was a different thread. I probably had clicked on your name and assumed it was that thread but thats my fault so I apologized for it.

In the end whether or not I have AS its not really important I'm different and the only reason I want to know that have it is I feel it will give me knowledge to make the changes I'd like to make. While you just sit there and wallow under the fact that science consideres you a psychological defect even though there is no defect its a different wiring and for that people are shunned and medicated and its looked at as a disease instead of what it is. This is based in fear and not disimilar to christians trying to convert nonbelievers not by choice but by force.

Your a scientific crusader without armor, your sword is withered falling against more superior equipment. None of that equipment was made by science that equipment was made by a combination of confidance, self accutalization, and true logic. All qualities lacking in the current state of the world... so defend science make me out to be "scizophrenic" in the end it doesn't matter because at the end of the day I love myself without that you cannot love anything else whether you have AS or not and while I disagree with you I respect you for sticking up for your beliefs but instead of being part of the problem and prosecuting everybody take some time to gain some more knowledge and be able to defend your opinions without personal attacks. Honestly whenever I see a person who uses that to say they are right without acutal evidence that is reliable it just shows a lack of understanding and wanting of courage to admit that your pretty little box doesn't have all the answers. If you want to live in that box more power to you but I for one am not gonig to blind my eyes to all the flaws that exist within.

I don't suffer from Asperger's. I am a different person than I would be without it, but it's a tradeoff, some benefits, some drawbacks. I am not defective or inferior, I am certainly capable of contributing to society moreso than the average person, and I see no reason why I shouldn't have children someday. My childhood wasn't much worse than anyone else's. Sure, middle school sucked, but it all evens out later on.
Even if AD were a disorder or a defect (which it is not) that would still not be reason to eliminate from the gene pool. Biological diversity is important to our specie's survival. As one example, if there are no autistics, who handles the computers for the rest of the world? Yes I know not all Aspies are computer geeks (I'm certainly not) but that particular field is largely dominated by Aspies, and it's a huge part of our economy. Who would fill that gap?

I won't have kids, but it's not because of my AS, it's more because of the state of the world and the direction things are headed, I'd feel guilty bringing a kid into this even if he/she turned up NT. AS is not a defect, it is a difference. At one time people thought of gays, blacks, and native americans, collectively, as being disabled because they were different. In fact it's the same eugenics mindset that dehumanized ethnic peoples that is STILL being used IN THE SAME WAY to dehumanize disabled people. I mean even if it were a disability, so what? We've always lived in an ableist society, the problem isn't disability, the problem is ignorance.

Despite believing it's a moot point, I've been thinking alot about this topic lately. For the longest time I've been of the mind that I would like to have children, but I wouldn't want them to suffer with the same difficulties I have.

Not long ago, I had an epiphany of sorts. We as Aspies, Auties, and what have you, have always been expected, even imposed upon, to bend ourselves and try to fit into the social majority while those in the majority, supposedly much more able to adapt, aren't expected to reach us on our level. My life would have been significantly easier had someone tried to adapt to my rules, instead of forcing me to adapt to theirs. Because of this insight and practice, I feel that I'll be better equipped to meet my children in their world, whichever one it may be.

I would like to have children someday, and even if they turn out to be just like me, they won't have to suffer through what I did because they'll have someone who's already been through it.

Skepticism is good, pseudoskepticism is not.

Yes, I believe that is partly the reason why most people would want to have kids, a selfish act.

its not fake in anyway but if theres not enough information to claim any thing as true then why follow a banner. I'm skeptic of the banners of the world because despite their original intention they always become something else its own version of politics, propganda, and dogma, so I observe the world I look for my own truths usually theres not enough data so I don't claim to know why something does what it does or what it is. In the end I think thats more rational then believing something that has only the acutal thing your studying as proof of its validity. We don't understand the world and all the processes contained within so why pretend we can understand any subject completely when its not possible. Research relies on variables the world is a variable without complete understanding of the world it is an out of control variable.

I believe in my abilities and I believe in myself and I'm interested to see what I find out along the way but no viewpoint is concrete there is only personal truths so there is only individualism. If my life is bad thats my fault if I want the world to change I got to start making the changes I seek. I won't be fooled into thinking that I'm a meaningless dot in some cosmic flow that my actions would not matter. If its true then oh well I'd rather contribute to the more postive viewpoint if I follow the common conception then I'm a defect and our existance is meant to be an undesirable.

If you want to believe that fine but I believe myself as the next thing that can help change the world. Will I eventually need help? maybe but in the end I hope the changes I made in myself will help those who are unhappy with their own circumstances to better themselves to whatever quality they desire. If I'm wrong I'll be proven such when I die but atleast I will have no regrets about not taking the actions that could possibly create more good in the world.

everybody just complains that the world is so bad, people can be so evil. I'm trying to change the environment I'm in and with that hopefully it'll have a small ripple effect on the world at large. If even one person turns around and is there for their breathen then my life was worth something. I work on results why I got results is not important as the result itself. I've helped people off of drugs, I've shown the person I want to be, I've become the person that when I was small I wanted to show me that there is goodness in the world. Science can't provide that, Religion can't provide that but belief in myself has done that.

Lack of social skills has been hell for me, I think the world is already overcrowded and I don't think it's such a nice place, and generally feel I've messed up my life. So I couldn't have biological children of my own with a clean conscience, and will not be having any.

Maybe there is a higher risk that a child of someone who has aspergers syndrome will also have it. But so what?

The choice you make when you choose to have a baby is to give a new person life. It's not your choice to give him or her AS. And even if that child will have some sort of autistic disorder it's not the end of the world.

It seems to me there are a lot of people here that like themselves, have good lives and are happy to be alive, that have AS or some other sort of autistic spectrum disorder.

Sometimes when people are in great pain or depressed they may say things like "I wish I had never been born." but that is not exclusive to people who have some sort of "disability". It has to do with emotional pain and that is something that can afflict a lot of different people.

But being different doesn't nessesarily mean that your're unhappy. Maybe you have to work harder, but so does a lot of people in various ways.

that sounds right... I dunno I have a belief that advantages or disadvantages for a person are different and balance themselves out. I have problems with motor clumsiness and empathy while someone who doesn't have those problems would have something else.

Last edited by Abangyarudo on 16 Dec 2007, 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well, I guess I forgot to mention that I wouldn't be interested in raising any kind of children because it's too unpredictable as to what kind of child I'm going to get--other people may not mind, but it's not something worth it to me, and I'm not willing to spend extra money on looking after another mouth to feed, or the effort to go through raising a kid. Not to mention sex and child labor are extremely repulsive to me.

I would not give up my own solitude to raise a child.