10 planks of communism

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Examples please? Where do you see capitalism failing? And I doubt you could effectively combine communism and capitalism. In America, we have an overall capitalist economy but socialized education. Our educational system sucks. We have an overall capitalist system, but a government-run monopoly on the postal system. The USPS is wasteful, inefficient, untrustworthy, and slow. Private mail carriers provide better service. When the profit motive of the free market is the driving force behind the economy as a whole, it is next to impossible to establish effective socialized systems against that backdrop. The people working for those systems will tend to be less motivated and thus those systems will not provide the same quality of service. The only place I really see a need for government to step in is for basic infrastructure like roads, and even this is a bit questionable.

Actually Fidel has been elected and re-elected (in a socialist democracy) numerous times. He hasn't committed any atrocities, and they have a better health care system in Cuba than here (Good 'ol USA)

Ok wise guy..lol... So the medical system in America is so great, but sadly the constraints of elitist capitalist lobbyists are there to see that most American citizens can't afford medical coverage. Hillary's medical plan is a total joke. Bush has not done a damn thing.... I find it ironic that an illegal alien will get free medical assistance while citizens are basically told to go f**k off if we need medical help. Yeah, we got good medical assistance, to those who can afford to see a doctor....
I'd tell you my recent discoveries on the world of politics..... I'm an anarchist, not a "communist anarchist" because that whole thing leaves a bad far left taste in my mouth. I believe in small communities of free thinkers and individuals working together as a team of non-indoctrinated individuals for the common good of the community. But that's just a dream.
This is how I see it.... The system we've been living in has always been a con. The same banking institutions that gave us communism gave us capitalism. Now theyr expecting illegal immigration to reduce us to a 3rd world nation, because by the system of politics, that is what would happen. So illegal immigration will spark a lot of unrest. However, this was never our system from the beginning. And nations are merely corporations of the international banking elites. For what its worth, I think all people should have an unalienable right to medical assistance, no matter where they come from.

Last edited by snake321 on 26 Feb 2008, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Basically, "civilization" is f****d.

And they've got no freedom to dissent either. Theyr TOLD what their opinions are, if they disagree, they are liable to be killed or tortured.... I also notice you've got the EU globalist flag on your avatar.... Are you another supporter of one world dictatorship from those banking scum and big business "experts"?

Man it's sad to see how people are rolling over and accepting tyrannical ideologies and governments, not only accepting them, but treating them as if they were some big hippy commune.
There was a time when people were willing to die to protect their freedom and their rights. Now people are giving up their freedom and their rights like it's all some New Age hippy dogma. Do you understand Castro is a violent dictator?
People have fought WARS to protect their freedom, their privacy, their liberty. These are unalienable rights for all human beings. You've been so indoctrinated now that you treat a violent dictatorship as some "progressive" hippy commune....
George Orwell did a damn good job of predicting the public mind in 1984, I'll tell ya. I mean that's beyond people not standing up for themselves, that's the people telling their leaders "abuse me".

The European Union? Banking Scum? Please explain what you mean by that.

Oh yes! Did you know that WE have assassinated several democratically elected leaders of countries, and appointed Dictators in their stead? (Like in south vietnam right before the "POLICE ACTION" we capped their president and put in a totalitarian regime to kill commies, and in Iraq we put Saddam into power, trained his military and told him to go kill Iranians, while at the same time we gave Iranians weapons to kill Iraqis.)Also, think about it, we have been at war constantly since world war two! You know why? Because the modern United States Government is practically RULED by belligerent neo-conservative organizations like the Project For The New American Century, which actually states in it's charter it's goal is for the United States to stand astride the world, unopposed. And what do you have against the European Union's members? Is it because they haven't been in a military action over 25 times in the past 40 years? Is it because they won't let gigantic american monopolies come in and buy out European businesses? Or maybe it's because THEIR ECONOMIES AREN'T FAILING!

Yeah, but you've got to go further than neo-con groups like PNAC, big business interests are what put the EU together. Now theyr trying to do the same here in the US, with the NAFTA super highway. Rockefellers, Rothschilds, there are like 13 inbred families who always controlled all the wealth, internationally, through the world bank and big business ventures. Bush's grampa funded and financed the NAZIs from Chase Manhattan Bank. They've got an Asian union too, but they call it something else (I forgot it's exact name)... There will be an African Union as well.... And theyr all controlled by the same international business men and bankers, it's all a big money system you see. AIPAC owns all our political representation. It's really really complex dude, pm me and I can explain it all. But it's a lot of work because it ties a lot of different things together.

You really have swallowed all of Moore's propaganda, haven't you? You know, you can go and watch your SICKO over again- even in those rankings (which have a pretty well-established anti-US bias) Cuba is a couple places lower than America. How the hell do you think they have a better health care system than us? Do you honestly think the footage from Moore's film is really what routinely occurs in Cuba's medical system? Are you truly too thick to understand that the Communists very much want to make themselves look better, and will be glad to give premier health care if it's being documented in a propaganda piece? It's the same type of stuff that happened in Animal Farm- make yourself out to look a lot better/stronger/wealthier than you are. Cuba is no utopia, and I know refugees who fled from Castro's regime. Castro may have been re-elected many times, but were any of those elections contested? An election with only one name on the ballot doesn't really convince me of the virtues of their political system, as it's the same as arbitrary party appointments. Cuba recently "elected" a new legislature in 614 uncontested races. There's your socialist democracy. "He hasn't committed any atrocities," my ass. The refugee I know, her father was sent to a forced-labor camp (as was anyone who expressed a desire to leave the country) for six months and was not fed in that time. No one in the labor camps was fed. She had to smuggle her dad tiny amounts of food every couple days, and he barely survived. People who oppose Castro were regularly "disappeared." Even most of the lefties and communists I know aren't dumb enough to praise Castro. He's nothing more than a Latin American Stalin.

Thank you for speaking some sanity here.

Fair enough, the US has done a lot of things no American would be proud of. The desire for dominance over the world is not a new thing, it's kind of been the goal of every major country since essentially the dawn of civilization. Not that it's commendable or excusable, in modern times people should have the sense to realize we don't need to conquer the world. My issue with the EU is that it is gradually expanding its own power at the expense of free and sovereign European nations. Germany and France are different countries, their citizens want different things, one should not be subjugated to the other because one did a better job of organizing a coalition in the governance of the EU. It's also laying the groundwork for the eventual establishment of a world state and the abolition of independent nations. Now you might think that's a good thing, but just try and imagine a democracy of 6 billion voters. It would be an absolute joke, and the bureaucracies and corporate aristocrats would gain even more dominance than they have now. And no, they haven't been as militarily involved as we have been, because they get us to fight all their wars for them (Vietnam was France's mess, we got stuck trying to clean it up). Great Britain has been involved in just about as many conflicts as we have though, so you can't really make that kind of a blanket statement. And their economies aren't exactly booming. France is running up big deficits (yeah I know, we are too and we shouldn't be) and if the French don't get their act together they'll be in trouble with Europe's banking system. America does have the single largest economy in the world- hell, even California on its own has a bigger economy than most European nations. Our economy isn't exactly "failing." It's not doing as well as it probably could be, but it certainly a far way from a total collapse.

Actually, medical bills are the most common cause of bankruptcy in America, according to this study from Harvard:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2 ... study.html

Communism doesn't exist.

It never has.

Communism is by definition parecon (participatory economics).

A truly participatory economy of voluntary cooperation never existed in history.

Debatable. Many scholars believe that North American Indians lived in such a manner. All resources were communally owned, each tribal group cooperated among themselves to produce the goods they needed. Of course, much of this is speculation as we do not have written histories of their society. But it is fairly well established that Native Americans really did not seem to have the concept of private ownership in their society, or at least not in the same sense as Europe did.

Actually, I have heard contrary things to that. http://www.mises.org/story/2642 This article here claims that indians did occasionally establish property rights. They probably had less of it and less of a sense of it than other peoples owing to their more primitive societies though.

Honestly though, to go to another point, I disagree with parecon and do not view it as a freer or more participatory system than capitalism, perhaps even less of one given its greater focus on society as the unit and less on the individual.