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slowmutant
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23 Sep 2008, 5:36 pm

greenblue wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
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Bringing a child you don't want into this world is immoral. Period. No matter what your domestic situation.


This is not true. You lie.

Agreed, bringing a child, wether you want it or not, is always an immoral act.


Why?



Fnord
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23 Sep 2008, 5:54 pm

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
Unwanted children are also born into, and brought up in, 'respectable' marriages. Not as bad as growing up in a children's home, but still deeply damaging in its own way.

Bringing a child you don't want into this world is immoral. Period. No matter what your domestic situation.

So, what alternative do you suggest to bringing an unwanted child into this world?



Accelerator
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23 Sep 2008, 10:29 pm

If sex is a sin.. then the bonobo must be the Sodom and Gomorra of the ape kingdom.. :-)

Will they fry....... who can tell.. ?

Apparently.. these apes have discovered that having more sex goes towards having more peaceful relations.. and less aggression.

Do they know something we don't know then.. ?

---

"The species is best characterized as female-centered and egalitarian and as one that substitutes sex for aggression. Whereas in most other species sexual behavior is a fairly distinct category, in the bonobo it is part and parcel of social relations--and not just between males and females. Bonobos engage in sex in virtually every partner combination (although such contact among close family members may be suppressed). And sexual interactions occur more often among bonobos than among other primates. Despite the frequency of sex, the bonobo's rate of reproduction in the wild is about the same as that of the chimpanzee. A female gives birth to a single infant at intervals of between five and six years. So bonobos share at least one very important characteristic with our own species, namely, a partial separation between sex and reproduction."

http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobosexsoc.html

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Haliphron
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23 Sep 2008, 10:46 pm

Accelerator wrote:
If sex is a sin.. then the bonobo must be the Sodom and Gomorra of the ape kingdom.. :-)

Will they fry....... who can tell.. ?

Apparently.. these apes have discovered that having more sex goes towards having more peaceful relations.. and less aggression.

Do they know something we don't know then.. ?

---

"The species is best characterized as female-centered and egalitarian and as one that substitutes sex for aggression. Whereas in most other species sexual behavior is a fairly distinct category, in the bonobo it is part and parcel of social relations--and not just between males and females. Bonobos engage in sex in virtually every partner combination (although such contact among close family members may be suppressed). And sexual interactions occur more often among bonobos than among other primates. Despite the frequency of sex, the bonobo's rate of reproduction in the wild is about the same as that of the chimpanzee. A female gives birth to a single infant at intervals of between five and six years. So bonobos share at least one very important characteristic with our own species, namely, a partial separation between sex and reproduction."

http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobosexsoc.html

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I suspect that Bonobo gay ass sex is used as a form of dominance; not unlike what human makes do in prison :lol: .
The whole idea behind homosexuality being regarded as Sin is that it does not lead to procreation. The authors of the bible lived in a time when ancient Israels strength and survival as a people was contingent on having a sufficiently large population AND a high birthrate. So any sexual behaviour that did not result in procreation was condemend as being "sinful".



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24 Sep 2008, 10:14 am

Sex became a sin because
1) Early christianity had to compete with religions where a main form of worship was having sex with a temple prostitute.
Who wouldn't want to be part of that church? Only people that were convinced that sex is a defilement, and fit only for its function of reproduction.

2) Chastity, virginity and celibacy became virtues at around the same time as a great famine in Europe. With so many people starving to death and no reliable means of birth control celibacy was the only means of controlling population. At this same time temperance and asceticism became prominent as well. So, a virgin was a heroine because she wasn't adding to the problem of starvation, and an ascetic who refused to eat was a hero, as his share could feed someone else.

Today the church seems to be confused about the original reason why sex was such a problem. Overpopulation was the problem then, and its the problem now. Therefore, christians shouldn't regard casual sex as a danger, just so long as people are concientiously using birth control. Instead they should look to the starvation found in the world today and think up a new solution to this very old problem.



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24 Sep 2008, 10:47 am

Sex is a sin because it's fun, and anything that's fun that doesn't involve praise and worship of the Big Guy is a big no-no in the Xian church.

And shouting "Ohmigawd!" at the final moment doesn't qualify.



twoshots
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24 Sep 2008, 11:29 am

Fnord wrote:
Sex is a sin because it's fun, and anything that's fun that doesn't involve praise and worship of the Big Guy is a big no-no in the Xian church.

Well, Christianity tends to be an ascetic religion. Sex is just the thing that most people focus on (because it's all most people think about), but the whole thing actually reduces to one's opinion on ascetic religions. Spiritually, I think there is something to be said for it.


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24 Sep 2008, 11:30 am

Nambo wrote:
Sex itself isnt a sin, just as eating isnt, but eating can become a sin as in gluttony.
When sex is used outside its proscribed setting of marriage, it can be one of the most devestatingly evil acts short of murder.
You see, sex can produce children, where you ever brought up in a Childrens home where the 4 and 5 year olds would stare at the light bulbs trying to make themselves go blind because thier "mummies" didnt want them?
I was.
God made sex, and he made sex to be one of the most enjoyable aspects of humanity, but unlike those of us who see it as a bit of harmless fun, God sees the results of its misuse in the broken lives of the innocent children it produce's.


Great post.


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ToadOfSteel
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24 Sep 2008, 11:31 am

Fnord wrote:
And shouting "Ohmigawd!" at the final moment doesn't qualify.


It doesn't? Damn...

And here I was thinking that God's very first command to humanity was "Be fruitful and multiply" :P



Sand
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24 Sep 2008, 12:32 pm

And of course it was that famous bacteria that said "Divide and conquer"



Haliphron
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24 Sep 2008, 12:33 pm

Ayame wrote:
Sex became a sin because
1) Early christianity had to compete with religions where a main form of worship was having sex with a temple prostitute.
Who wouldn't want to be part of that church? Only people that were convinced that sex is a defilement, and fit only for its function of reproduction.

Today the church seems to be confused about the original reason why sex was such a problem. Overpopulation was the problem then, and its the problem now. Therefore, christians shouldn't regard casual sex as a danger, just so long as people are concientiously using birth control. Instead they should look to the starvation found in the world today and think up a new solution to this very old problem.


It turns out that in modern times, its mostly the protestant fundamentalists who have this vitriolic hatred of sex which is due to their puritan heritage. Catholicism is far more tolerant of sex, in fact they encourage it as long as its not homosexuality, bestiality, fornication(though they are VERY forgiving of this), or rape.
There WAS a group of protestants in the 19th century called the Shakers who believed that sex was sinfunl and guess what? THEY DIED OUT! :D



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24 Sep 2008, 12:55 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
And shouting "Ohmigawd!" at the final moment doesn't qualify.

It doesn't? Damn...

And here I was thinking that God's very first command to humanity was "Be fruitful and multiply" :P

Soitinly! Be fruitful and multiply, but just don't enjoy it...
:P



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24 Sep 2008, 1:40 pm

I've boiled it down to 2 possible reasons:

1) God is a prick. He creates humanity with the inherent capacity to derive such pleasure from sex, and then forbids us from actually practicing it

2) God couldn't care less about our sexual practices, but more how humans treated one another in life (as seen in the lessons in the Gospel of Matthew). Some guy with a small penis later started indoctrinating people about the "sin" surrounding something that God created us with the capacity for (and then almost immediately told us to perform)...



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24 Sep 2008, 2:13 pm

^ If there were a vote, mine would be for the second reason.

Maybe it was one of those self-emasculated Popes, eh?



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24 Sep 2008, 4:04 pm

slowmutant wrote:
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Bringing a child you don't want into this world is immoral. Period. No matter what your domestic situation.


This is not true. You lie.


Please explain how.


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Fnord
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24 Sep 2008, 4:17 pm

Fnord wrote:
ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
Unwanted children are also born into, and brought up in, 'respectable' marriages. Not as bad as growing up in a children's home, but still deeply damaging in its own way.

Bringing a child you don't want into this world is immoral. Period. No matter what your domestic situation.

So, what alternative do you suggest to bringing an unwanted child into this world?

I am still waiting for your answer, TRHG...