Ever had a proper Existential crisis?

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I didn't choose to trouble myself. My existence is a tiny part of the universe. A few numbers on the age and size of the universe will give you an idea of the scale we're talking about. Given the size of the place, it seems highly likely to me that there's (a) higher power(s). Nobody said it's benevolent power, and I'm troubled by the fact that this life - short and sometimes crap - is only the forerunner - an entrance exam if you will - for the next life.

If that is the case, then not worrying about it and acting like everybody else probably isn't the best course of action.

ok then if you want to worry about it why do you choose to listen to only one opinion (that of the Georgian christian)? I understand that the thought of being excluded from the club must have been scary and I'm pretty sure that was the guy's point. but try to think for yourself a bit, do you really think it makes sense? supposedly God created humans and the whole universe, so he also must have created all the laws of this universe which happen to be logical and rational. he gave us our logical minds. why would he expect us to ignore all that and act unreasonably?

don't you see a conflict here?

anyway, most Christians agree that you don't need to be a believer to go to heaven. maybe it would be wiser to listen to those christians, not the ones who believe that the Earth is 2500 years old and that the dinosaurs were a scam.

As do some of these Bush votin' gun totin' American caricatures.

A caricature does nothing but what we say it does. This is my point. It's very easy to call Christians simple when we have a skewed perception of them and ourselves.


Please don't be so patronising. I wouldn't be writing this is I wasn't "thinking for myself." What does that even mean anyway?



1. I don't know if this God is a god of all creation. Maybe, (s)he's just a bored teenager playing a cosmic version of
[/quote]The Sims. I had cruel moments playing that game, and I don't know or care much if those characters really exist. Perhaps (H/Sh)e doesn't care either. Nobody said (S)he was nice.
2. Our minds aren't logical. We have wars, famines, boredom and television. And every belief system we have relies on a foundation of faith. This is true of everything from Athiests to Suicide bombers. I don't know which foundation to build my belief on.

I suffered problems when I realized all the religious stories I'd been fed were utter nonsense. This was when I was 10-12 years old, and the depression continued until I was about 15.

More recently, I've been suffering with questions of my own existence, the existence of morality (or purpose, meaning), the existence of whole objects, etc. Sort of things like "I am nothing but the illusion of myself", or "only the smallest parts of things exist, and all else is relative and delusional interpretation". I managed to get over it by realizing that the smallest parts of everything are vague expressions of energy, thus making all things one rather than all things infinitely divisible. In that, I found a sort of god. Fate is determinism, and god is the universe (or the multiverse, maybe...)

So I managed to find comfort in my nihilism. In my experience, most tend to not be able to think deeply about such things for a long enough period of time, and usually resort to some sort of superstitious nonsense (whether it's religious or not) to make up for their inability to find answers.

Oh, and I should add, it's an absolutely terrible thing to go through. I was a drunken mess of a recluse who almost stabbed his neighbor. I'm surprised I didn't kill myself.

that amused me. 'be as good as a white person can be'. such an interesting qualification, i'd love to here the differentiation between how good a white person can be and how good a non-white person can be.

i'd never considered an existential crisis as an episode of worrying about the spoutings of preachers. i spent high school worrying that there was no concrete evidence of my own existence, or that of what i perceived as the world around me, and that if i or what appeared to be everything that wasn't me existed or didn't, how could it possibly matter? i always thought of that as an existential crisis in the classic sense.

I've had an existential crisis, although it took a slightly different form.

There are 3 possibilities:

1. God doesn't exit. If so, you are worrying about nothing.

2. God does exist, and is good. (This is what I personally believe.) If so, you should worry about being honest with yourself and being as decent a human being as you can be. If God is good, he won't make it so that someone who loves truth, justice, etc. is going to end up left out.

3. God exists, but is evil, indifferent, or is something that we don't understand. In any of these cases we can't predict God's actions, since we don't know anything about him. So you might as well just do what you otherwise would have done, and hope for the best.

If you want a good, clear explaination of the basics of Christianity, I'd recommend C. S. Lewis' 'Mere Christianity'. If you're going to read the Bible (or some parts of it), I'd recommend starting with one or more of the gospels, since they have the words of Jesus in them. What he says really cuts to the heart of the matter, and often really makes you think.

Think about how many people have studied, and thought, and argued over this same topic. We still don't have a single, definite answer that everyone agrees on. Can you, by yourself, outsmart everyone else in the world and finally, definitively solve this problem? Not really. You have to come to terms with the idea that you won't ever get absolute certainty.

Ancalagon, just don't forget that it can also be "Wow....I'm 35, living at home, and working at Pet Smart - wtf......." ; not always a God thing .

I slightly agree. Worrying about religious issues does seem insignificant compared to things I've worried about, but it's essentially the same thing. Questioning your own existence leads to feelings of meaninglessness as does the loss of a god concept in one's life. It brings the same feelings, although the issue of god is harder to take seriously.



Just because people don't agree doesn't mean there isn't a definite answer. I think this problem has been solved. Nietzsche's ubermensch and Camus' acceptance of fate and the absurd pretty much ended all these worries.

Then again, most people don't read Nietzsche, let alone Camus (which really helped me).

Oh come on. Who hasn't read Camus?

I went through a period like that where I obsessed over religion when I was 12-14. I was brought up in a reformed Calvinist church that teaches only the “elect” get to go to heaven. For a while I was obsessed with determining whether the bible could still be correct even though I couldn’t believe that the stories in the book of Genesis were literally true or that the earth was 10,000 years old. I noticed that my parents kind of swept the issue under the rug, so to speak, as they claimed to believe both creationism and evolution while my Sunday school teacher insisted that Genesis was indeed literal. I came to the conclusion that the Sunday school teacher was a complete idiot to believe that but I was still terrified of going to hell for my “unbelief”.

It also bothered me how Christians seemed almost flippant about the whole hell thing. The idea that at least 70% of humanity might be going to a place of eternal torture made me feel sick. I still don’t understand how fundys can believe that and not be completely depressed their entire life, unless they’re completely heartless beings. It’s almost like they don’t really believe in hell in the same frame of reference as they would if it were a real physical place here on earth where they could literally watch people being cast into the flames. I just don’t get it. Never have, never will.

I eventually just decided that the whole thing was a sham designed to scare people. The hypothesis that humans created religion makes a lot more sense to me and renders the probability of a god like that of the bible existing practically nil.

Would you give the finger to the God that accepts everyone with open arms, that doesn't want any good souls to burn forever (and takes measures to make sure that doesn't happen), and promotes original thinking? I'm a christian, and that is the God I believe in...

As for the "though Jesus you are saved" bit, I don't believe in Jesus as the "bouncer" of heaven, stopping anyone who isn't on the guest list from getting in. Rather, I see Jesus as the Morpheus of heaven, the man who will open the door for us mortals, but each of us must choose to step through it...


Welcome to the life of the moderate, being caught in the crossfire while extremist christians and extremist athiests duke it out in an all-out trollfest for the fate of alt.religion...

In my experience, I've gotten about equal flak from both sides... the athiests for make the *very* rational conclusion that since I am a christian, I must be unable to think rationally, right before I think rationally in front of them just to make them shut up. On the other hand, the christians hate me for being a "gay lover" since I believe that practicing homosexuals can get into heaven just fine... and then I pull out the Gospel of Matthew (specifically Matt 7:1-6) to make them shut up as well...

athiesm is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard-someone who goes on and on how there is no god, but they, like the uber christian has no proof
its really funny to hear them
I don't worship or believe in the god you do, or really any god
but I cannot, as a simple human deny its existance

People are also less than utterly serious, depressed, and somber all the time despite the fact that the Holocaust happened. It's because you can't focus on a horrific event all the time without wearing yourself out emotionally.

People are starving and being tortured and killed right now, somewhere. Are you going to spend all your time feeling terribly sorry for them, or are you going to live your life? (Not trying to sound flippant about human suffering, but if we wait until everyone in the world lives in peace and harmony before having any fun, we'll never have any fun at all.)

There is no theological justification for your 70% number. Most Christians see Hell as more separation from God than literal torment. Not that it's a good thing.

I really think very low of any religion that places the following of doctrine above actual goodness in determining avoidance of eternal punishment. Fear, in my opinion, makes for a poor motive for following a particular religion or worshiping a particular god or messiah. I for one could not follow a religion I do not believe in in good conscience out of simple fear.

Have you heard of Pascal's Wager? Basically he says that one should believe in God because if God exists then heaven awaits for the believer, if God does not exist then nothing is lost in the end.

I like to turn this on end though. I think it is better to not believe in God - if there is no God then at least you have the consolation of being right (although once you are dead you won't know anyway). If there is a benevolent God and you have lived life as well as you can then I don't see a problem. If God is more restrictive and requires certain things of his followers (like belief in him and certain rituals), then do we really want such a God anyway? Shouldn't we rebel against him like against an unfair dictator? Overthrow heaven and reclaim it for our own? And if God was supposed to have created us in the beginning, then he can hardly blame us for our complaints of unfairness.

Anyway, all this is assuming that you have free will and can choose your beliefs. I don't have free will. I don't believe you have it either, but I don't want to impose on you if you need this illusion. In general I think that it is best that you worry about this question. If you are constantly wondering whether or not God exists then you are keeping an open mind - unfortunately this isnt sustainable in the long term and you will come down (or stay) on one side or other of the argument - irrationally of course and find (like me) reasons to justify your belief or non belief.