The NRA 2008 Firearm Salesman of the Year...

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Haliphron
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03 Apr 2009, 8:30 pm

zerooftheday wrote:
Haliphron:

If that's the only reason you own a firearm, it's a really crappy reason. And the quote is:

"God made some men big, and some men small. Colonel Colt made all men equal."



While I actually dont own a firearm personally(but that may change.. :wink: ) I DO know someone who has a pistol for self-defense because she's had Men(and she's only 5'3", pretty petite)stalk her. WTF is wrong with that? A firearm IS a pretty useful tool to deter predatory criminals despite liberal lies based on nothing more than questionable statistics. Why do you consider it a "really crappy reason" to own a gun? :?



John_Browning
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03 Apr 2009, 9:55 pm

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I own a gun for self defense because I would have a hard time repelling an invader due to mild cerebral palsy on one side. I also own a gun in case there is a big earthquake or some other form of civil unrest (the area I live in isn't that nice). If I intend to come out on top of any such emergency, I'd need a gun.


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Sand
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03 Apr 2009, 10:46 pm

The several reasons for owning a gun are highly dependent upon being justified by excellent reasoning abilities in a crisis situation. The petite pretty girl who has been primed to defend herself in a bad situation by previous bad experiences has a good chance of injuring or killing someone mistakenly by misinterpreting an innocent intent. Fear obliterates reason. The police frequently shoot innocents.I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. It's just too powerful an instrument.



John_Browning
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04 Apr 2009, 12:46 am

Sand wrote:
The several reasons for owning a gun are highly dependent upon being justified by excellent reasoning abilities in a crisis situation. The petite pretty girl who has been primed to defend herself in a bad situation by previous bad experiences has a good chance of injuring or killing someone mistakenly by misinterpreting an innocent intent. Fear obliterates reason. The police frequently shoot innocents.I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. It's just too powerful an instrument.

I was bullied in school and I know when I'm in danger and when I just need to be vigilant, and I'm sure this girl isn't just going to shoot someone arbitrarily either.


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T-rav20
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04 Apr 2009, 1:06 am

Sand wrote:
The several reasons for owning a gun are highly dependent upon being justified by excellent reasoning abilities in a crisis situation. The petite pretty girl who has been primed to defend herself in a bad situation by previous bad experiences has a good chance of injuring or killing someone mistakenly by misinterpreting an innocent intent. Fear obliterates reason.
This is why you train. Training destroys fear and inoculates your mind against stress.

Sand wrote:
The police frequently shoot innocents.
Most cops have very little experience with firearms. The annual qualifying course for most departments here in the US is 200 rounds, few and far between are the officers that shoot more than that. I had more rounds down range by the time I was fifteen than most police officers have in their entire career.

Sand wrote:
I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. It's just too powerful an instrument.
I'm sorry that you have so little self confidence, but that does not give you the right to take away my rights.


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Sand
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04 Apr 2009, 1:40 am

T-rav20 wrote:
Sand wrote:
The several reasons for owning a gun are highly dependent upon being justified by excellent reasoning abilities in a crisis situation. The petite pretty girl who has been primed to defend herself in a bad situation by previous bad experiences has a good chance of injuring or killing someone mistakenly by misinterpreting an innocent intent. Fear obliterates reason.
This is why you train. Training destroys fear and inoculates your mind against stress.

Sand wrote:
The police frequently shoot innocents.
Most cops have very little experience with firearms. The annual qualifying course for most departments here in the US is 200 rounds, few and far between are the officers that shoot more than that. I had more rounds down range by the time I was fifteen than most police officers have in their entire career.

Sand wrote:
I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. It's just too powerful an instrument.
I'm sorry that you have so little self confidence, but that does not give you the right to take away my rights.


I don't trust you anymore than I trust myself. Your right ends with a bullet in my head. It's not a convincing argument to me.



T-rav20
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04 Apr 2009, 1:46 am

Sand wrote:
T-rav20 wrote:
Sand wrote:
The several reasons for owning a gun are highly dependent upon being justified by excellent reasoning abilities in a crisis situation. The petite pretty girl who has been primed to defend herself in a bad situation by previous bad experiences has a good chance of injuring or killing someone mistakenly by misinterpreting an innocent intent. Fear obliterates reason.
This is why you train. Training destroys fear and inoculates your mind against stress.

Sand wrote:
The police frequently shoot innocents.
Most cops have very little experience with firearms. The annual qualifying course for most departments here in the US is 200 rounds, few and far between are the officers that shoot more than that. I had more rounds down range by the time I was fifteen than most police officers have in their entire career.

Sand wrote:
I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. It's just too powerful an instrument.
I'm sorry that you have so little self confidence, but that does not give you the right to take away my rights.


I don't trust you anymore than I trust myself. Your right ends with a bullet in my head. It's not a convincing argument to me.
Incorrect, your rights end at my skin, and my ability to defend that skin effectively. You have no right to take my life, or put me in a situation where some one else could take my life. Being disarmed in a hostile world is just such a situation.


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Sand
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04 Apr 2009, 2:14 am

T-rav20 wrote:
Sand wrote:
T-rav20 wrote:
Sand wrote:
The several reasons for owning a gun are highly dependent upon being justified by excellent reasoning abilities in a crisis situation. The petite pretty girl who has been primed to defend herself in a bad situation by previous bad experiences has a good chance of injuring or killing someone mistakenly by misinterpreting an innocent intent. Fear obliterates reason.
This is why you train. Training destroys fear and inoculates your mind against stress.

Sand wrote:
The police frequently shoot innocents.
Most cops have very little experience with firearms. The annual qualifying course for most departments here in the US is 200 rounds, few and far between are the officers that shoot more than that. I had more rounds down range by the time I was fifteen than most police officers have in their entire career.

Sand wrote:
I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. It's just too powerful an instrument.
I'm sorry that you have so little self confidence, but that does not give you the right to take away my rights.


I don't trust you anymore than I trust myself. Your right ends with a bullet in my head. It's not a convincing argument to me.
Incorrect, your rights end at my skin, and my ability to defend that skin effectively. You have no right to take my life, or put me in a situation where some one else could take my life. Being disarmed in a hostile world is just such a situation.


It's good you laid it on the line. You're scared of the world. I'm not.



T-rav20
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04 Apr 2009, 2:22 am

Sand wrote:
T-rav20 wrote:
Sand wrote:
T-rav20 wrote:
Sand wrote:
The several reasons for owning a gun are highly dependent upon being justified by excellent reasoning abilities in a crisis situation. The petite pretty girl who has been primed to defend herself in a bad situation by previous bad experiences has a good chance of injuring or killing someone mistakenly by misinterpreting an innocent intent. Fear obliterates reason.
This is why you train. Training destroys fear and inoculates your mind against stress.

Sand wrote:
The police frequently shoot innocents.
Most cops have very little experience with firearms. The annual qualifying course for most departments here in the US is 200 rounds, few and far between are the officers that shoot more than that. I had more rounds down range by the time I was fifteen than most police officers have in their entire career.

Sand wrote:
I wouldn't trust myself with a gun. It's just too powerful an instrument.
I'm sorry that you have so little self confidence, but that does not give you the right to take away my rights.


I don't trust you anymore than I trust myself. Your right ends with a bullet in my head. It's not a convincing argument to me.
Incorrect, your rights end at my skin, and my ability to defend that skin effectively. You have no right to take my life, or put me in a situation where some one else could take my life. Being disarmed in a hostile world is just such a situation.


It's good you laid it on the line. You're scared of the world. I'm not.

No, I have a realistic view of the world, you, obviously do not.

Fear (fîr) n.
1.
a. A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.
b. A state or condition marked by this feeling: living in fear.'

war·y (wâr)
adj. war·i·er, war·i·est
1. On guard; watchful: taught to be wary of strangers.
2. Characterized by caution


See the difference?


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I'm A PINEY from my head down to my HINEY.


Sand
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04 Apr 2009, 2:57 am

I have lived in New York during its worst crime rate and spent time with black friends in Harlem (I am white), marched with CORE in Tennessee in the early 1960's and had a cross burnt on my lawn by the KKK, been in Israel during the 1967 war and later visited deep into the West bank with Arab friends, lived in Berlin when it was isolated by the Russians in 1962 and was under siege, and never needed or wanted a gun. Maybe I was extremely lucky or maybe I saw the world through different eyes.



zerooftheday
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04 Apr 2009, 3:27 am

Haliphron:

It's a crappy reason because if someone has a firearm simply to defend themselves, they tend to think of it as a cure for any situation. Your lady friend has a pistol, GOOD. She probably should, it's a crappy world. I'm all about owning firearms for pretty much any reason.

But when people who don't like firearms buy them for self-defense, they do so with a warped view of the weapon itself. They tend to not practice, not mentally prepare, they just grab the weapon while they're scared and shoot. They think life will turn out like "The Brave One" or something.

People who enjoy using firearms, they practice, they clean them, they handle them enough to feel comfortable. Firearms are like any other tool; if folks don't use them often, they don't often do what they're supposed to. The way I see it, if "ammo cost" isn't an entry in your monthly budget, you probably shouldn't be carrying a weapon for self-defense.

It's your choice, but a skill with a pistol is like any other skill. Practice makes perfect, no practice makes things worse.

T-Rav20:

I'm with you, man. As long as we aren't talking about killing people, or *doing* dangerous things with our firearms, they ought to leave us alone. We aren't hurting anyone, why does it matter what we do with our money, on our time, out of their way?

Sand:

Good for you, you made it through some tough s*** and lived to talk about it. That's cool, and it's good that you see a way for people to exist without needing weapons.

But why don't you focus more on removing the reasons we feel we may need to defend ourselves, and less on taking our firearms? And guess what? If we don't feel threatened, our actions and mannerisms may reflect that, and we'll simply be the folks down the street who go out shooting once a week, and give out elk steaks once a year.

You are definitely *not* lucky if you were in all those places at those times. You've probably got some of the worst luck in recent memory. If you believe in luck, anyways.



T-rav20
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04 Apr 2009, 3:34 am

Sand wrote:
I have lived in New York during its worst crime rate and spent time with black friends in Harlem (I am white), marched with CORE in Tennessee in the early 1960's and had a cross burnt on my lawn by the KKK, been in Israel during the 1967 war and later visited deep into the West bank with Arab friends, lived in Berlin when it was isolated by the Russians in 1962 and was under siege, and never needed or wanted a gun. Maybe I was extremely lucky or maybe I saw the world through different eyes.
Your biography really is not germane to this discussion, but the fact that you walked heedless into such situations underlines the vast difference in our worldviews. So far as I can tell, you either have no care for your own life or the lives of those around you, or you simply believe nothing can harm you. Either of these views is insane.


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Sand
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04 Apr 2009, 6:02 am

T-rav20 wrote:
Sand wrote:
I have lived in New York during its worst crime rate and spent time with black friends in Harlem (I am white), marched with CORE in Tennessee in the early 1960's and had a cross burnt on my lawn by the KKK, been in Israel during the 1967 war and later visited deep into the West bank with Arab friends, lived in Berlin when it was isolated by the Russians in 1962 and was under siege, and never needed or wanted a gun. Maybe I was extremely lucky or maybe I saw the world through different eyes.
Your biography really is not germane to this discussion, but the fact that you walked heedless into such situations underlines the vast difference in our worldviews. So far as I can tell, you either have no care for your own life or the lives of those around you, or you simply believe nothing can harm you. Either of these views is insane.


I have lived a life longer than average and remain alive and healthy and unafraid. If that's insanity, make the most of it.



SamAckary
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04 Apr 2009, 7:40 am

Honestly, I have held and used a .45 Calibre Revolver....and i'm glad in my country people cannot easily aquire one to carry around, sure it was black powder, but if a proper cartridge loaded is more powerful it makes me slightly scared at the thought that someone could decide the fate of another human being, a person who could be misunderstood, merely scared or truly insane, I fired 12 shots, down at targets, but it didn't feel good, it didn't feel good because I thought that if I shot that at a person i'd leave a massive atomic structure lifeless, mindless, empty, with a dead brain comes utter nothingness and its then that you realise that you were too late. I have also used a .38 Winchester, a fine mechanical device, but that is where it ends, I find guns fascinating as pieces of technology, but their function makes me feel far more malicious than I should, i'm glad Obama is anti-gun and anti-nuclear weapons, we don't want another Bush now do we


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Sand
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04 Apr 2009, 7:59 am

SamAckary wrote:
Honestly, I have held and used a .45 Calibre Revolver....and i'm glad in my country people cannot easily aquire one to carry around, sure it was black powder, but if a proper cartridge loaded is more powerful it makes me slightly scared at the thought that someone could decide the fate of another human being, a person who could be misunderstood, merely scared or truly insane, I fired 12 shots, down at targets, but it didn't feel good, it didn't feel good because I thought that if I shot that at a person i'd leave a massive atomic structure lifeless, mindless, empty, with a dead brain comes utter nothingness and its then that you realise that you were too late. I have also used a .38 Winchester, a fine mechanical device, but that is where it ends, I find guns fascinating as pieces of technology, but their function makes me feel far more malicious than I should, i'm glad Obama is anti-gun and anti-nuclear weapons, we don't want another Bush now do we


I shot the 45 caliber army automatic, the 30 caliber carbine and the 45 caliber army recoil less machine gun (the grease gun) for record and qualified in each as part of my basic training. I never had to shoot at a living target nor would I want to. My ears rang for days afterward. It was quite unpleasant.



Haliphron
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04 Apr 2009, 10:12 am

Sand wrote:
I have lived in New York during its worst crime rate and spent time with black friends in Harlem (I am white), marched with CORE in Tennessee in the early 1960's and had a cross burnt on my lawn by the KKK, been in Israel during the 1967 war and later visited deep into the West bank with Arab friends, lived in Berlin when it was isolated by the Russians in 1962 and was under siege, and never needed or wanted a gun. Maybe I was extremely lucky or maybe I saw the world through different eyes.


New York City crime, even violent crime, is GROSSLY exagerated. There most certainly are some very dangerous, violent cities in the US but NYC actually isnt one them. Los Angeles, New Orleans, and Detroit are by far the most dangerous. There are also some border towns in Texas which have become warzones due to murderous mexican drug traffickers.