attempt to understand

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As someone who lost a son under horrible circumstances I was totally repelled and disgusted by people who tried to shove the total horse crap of afterlife at me to attempt to destroy the strong valuable pain I felt for his loss. Death is very real and childish fairy tales are for idiots who cannot face reality.

They should not have shoved something you consider crap on you, and if they didn't know you well enough to know what you would think of it, then it really wouldn't be their business.

But I think you are rather overestimating how much comfort can be derived from belief in an afterlife. It certainly doesn't take away all the pain.

i recentley went to a pentacostical church down there in casa grande, this last sunday. and while i dont have any problem with religion i do have a problem with a pastor telling the congragation to think along the lines of a good mystery. and then. vote based on that glourious mystery. he talked about homo's, pronogaphy and speaking in tounges. i was quite shocked at all the sexual reference from the pulpit. and quite frankly i started thinking about sexual no no's everytime he said HOMOSEXUALITY, and PORNOGrAPHY. i was turned on! and im just betting i wasnt the only one

damn staright

since sand is very hostile against religion, and i will make an assumption, his idea of shoveling might have been their form of comforting.

if i was a very devout/religious person and someone in an attempt to console me in my time of need says "There's no need to worry about it, there's nothing to live for in the end, no afterlife." i dont think id take that as well as the person expected.

Anybody who believes that the point of life is to gain an afterlife is denigrating and dismissing the fantastic and rare opportunity to pay close attention and appreciation of simply being alive. And that also completely attacks the huge loss of someone precious dying. I resent that effort as naive fantasy.

The reason why I believe in god is because I realised that a high "fluid intelligence" quotient, ( which measures the tendency to ascribe agency, attribute cause, see patterns in things, create meaning out of "chaos" etc ), combined with a low "something else" quotient, meant that I went through life like a lone scout in enemy territory constantly on the alert, constantly looking out for and attempting to interpret everything. This was exhausting.

For years I had almost never stopped trying to work out what things meant, where I was going, why I existed etc. I still look for patterns, seek meaning, etc, but the "first cause" bit is no longer an issue; it's "sorted". So long as I believe in the virtual reality created by language I feel so much better, ( more able, less in danger therefore less angry and resentful about things ), believing in god/"the universe".

What caused me to understand this about myself was a couple of papers/articles which I read describing the "god need", ( which I think would be more accurately described as the "need for belief-in-god" ); the theory is that some/many people "need" belief in god in order to be able to "relax"/let go of searching for the first cause and meaning of everything.

And I "decided" to believe in god. It was an extraordinary experience, as if after years of darting from cover to cover, of keeping my guard up, of keeping my eyes, ears, etc open at all times, I had suddenly arrived somewhere safe, ( major gratitude for the belief ensued ).

That is probably the most fundamental effect that it has on me, but another crucial one is how belief in god seems to have allowed me to realise that free will does not exist, that it is just a belief that some people have, probably because it brings them comfort too, but having discovered how much more peaceful, confident, etc I feel for not believing in it, I can't imagine in what way!

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Tap into the Nexus or the Source. It is like eating chicken soup; it wouldn't hurt.

Every now and again I get a warm blast from the Flame Eternal.

Moses had this experience with the Burning Bush. He interpreted it as a call to go back to Egypt. Others interpret it differently.

ruveyn

thank you all alot for the information.

I admit, I have asked these things, as one of my closest friends is a devout christian, and i am trying to see things from his perspective; you have all given me alot to think about.

Although, I would ask that Sand please not be quite so hostile; i am on a journey of understanding, and, although it is good to see both sides of a debate, this is not te place for a deate - i simply want to understand! As such, and as i have said before, I am not looking for people to be flaming religion.

I hope that you all understand this...

Ok, so I can understand the sense of community and the idea of an after life, and the idea of a first cause, but what about the affect it has on your day to day life? Does it affect decisions that you make (can you give examples)? Does it affect your behaviour towards and from other people?

The intensity of my hostility is energized by my very deep anguish over one of the prime events in my life. My strong feelings are the result of what appears to me to demean the very essence of actually being alive and I cannot take that any way but personally.

Since I started believing in god, about 18 months ago now, there has been one ripple/shock-wave/knock-on effect after another.

It penetrates everything to do with language, all of the virtual reality which language creates and all of the things which language has an impact on, ( an awful lot of life, in other words ).

.

To be honest, it appears to affect you still. Have you spoken to anybody about his? Perhaps someone tat can be briefed beforehand about the grief and anguish that you are still feeling? Also abot that religious connotations are not welcomed by you, so that they do not cross th line that you are uncomfortable with.

These are just thoughts... But i would like to get back ontot the track of my main reason for posting.

My regards are to you, and I do not mean to lessen the impact of your replies, however this is not the time nor place I was looking for such replies; there will possibl be others though, and I welcome your input to those threads!

Despite popular aphorisms on the subject time does not lessen the loss of an important person by death. But I will concede that I might be psychologically different in this. I see no value in devaluing the sense of loss and any attempt to do so strikes me as cheapening the value of life itself.

That aside, I am still trying to get back to my point; we are sorry for your loss, but please, can this get back to what I am trying to focus on!

exactly, just like the placebo effect (or if you prefer, miracles ) don't only happen to the religious. if they did, that would be some good proof for God's existence (especially if they only happened to those who believe some particular religion).

I was just wondering if Shadowgirl was aware of this.

A miracle is something that occurs that is against the known laws of physics or chemistry. It never happens.

Without turning this into a thread on science and mathematics (i have a degree in the latter, and working towards a degree in the former) there are still laws of physics and chemistry that are not 100% known (or if you follow Godel, not even 100% knowable)

As such there might be things that can occur that are against the "known" laws of physics and chemistry; after all, science advances but does not prove