Is there really a God?

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13 May 2009, 11:15 pm

I've always loved weighing in on controversial topics... *grins*

For me, the biggest argument against a god is simply that every time a war breaks out, no large message appears in the stars saying "Oy, cut that out! Don't make me come down there!".

This means that one of the following is true:

a) There is no god.
b) God doesn't care about humans much, or is more interested in a grand godly purpose than in people - making him fairly irrelevant.
c) God is not greatly powerful.

Henriksson
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14 May 2009, 12:17 am

EvilZak wrote:

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14 May 2009, 3:05 am

EvilZak wrote:

or god sees war as part of a grand sceme. Humans can not see every end that may occur if god is omipotent then god will see these and choose wich path to take.

In a nut shell war is part of a greater plan (IMO)

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EvilZak
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14 May 2009, 3:43 am

scorpileo wrote:

EvilZak wrote:

That would be option B - "is more interested in a grand godly purpose than in people".

scorpileo
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14 May 2009, 4:35 am

he is interested in people but our lives are short and he/she thinks long term as do I. also he gave us free choice and wont inpeade our actions but will guide us if we are willing to listen and punsish us if need be.

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EvilZak
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14 May 2009, 5:02 am

scorpileo wrote:

he is interested in people but our lives are short and he/she thinks long term as do I.

scorpileo wrote:

also he gave us free choice and wont inpeade our actions but will guide us if we are willing to listen and punsish us if need be.

A large message written in the stars (or other similar obvious sign) does not impede free will, and allows people to be "guided" if they are "willing to listen" - there would be no reason for god to make his messages less than obvious.

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14 May 2009, 7:07 am

Quote:

With a long-term view in mind, most wars are a bad idea. If you look at the even longer term, the wars are eventually forgotten.

Besides which, if god is omnipotent (i.e. able to do anything), then he can achieve his objectives without any wars being necessary.
A large message written in the stars (or other similar obvious sign) does not impede free will, and allows people to be "guided" if they are "willing to listen" - there would be no reason for god to make his messages less than obvious.

well.... wars cause desruction from which comes rebirth and alot of our technology was developed for/through wars.

As to god being omipotent.. I admit that I somtimes strugle with that. I believe God is but it raises alot of questions.
I have an answer but it is long and incomplete..

I would say god's message is in the bible and that it IS in the stars I belief that astrology is one of god's way to comune with humans.

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EvilZak
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14 May 2009, 7:36 am

scorpileo wrote:

Quote:

True, but if god wanted us to have particular technology, he could simply supply it - no need for a war.

As for the message in the stars thing, that was meant as an example of an "obviously god-supplied message" - whereas astrology is not an "obviously god-supplied message". The point is that if god existed, he would have no reason to be less than obvious, or send messages in such a way that not many people would recognise them as messages.

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14 May 2009, 8:06 am

henrik delivers yet again .

Pragmatica
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14 May 2009, 10:11 am

*grins*

To doubt your own proof, is a challenging.
To prove your own doubt, offer a challenge.
Doubt is challenging proof, that there is faith.
Challenge your own proof and you have faith.
Challenge your own faith and you have proof.
Challenge another’s faith, to doubt your proof.

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14 May 2009, 2:27 pm

EvilZak wrote:

scorpileo wrote:

EvilZak wrote:

That would be option B - "is more interested in a grand godly purpose than in people".

Well, not necessarily. Leibniz contended that human suffering would have to have been necessary in a world of maximum good possible. That is, under the idea that God must create a logically possible world subject to the fact that it must be the best possible world, and ergo this world has evil because it permits the greatest possible good. It's a balancing act, more than "a grand godly purpose", under that interpretation.

I much favor the Aristotelian "god", which being so much superior was quite incapable of loving man.

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EvilZak
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14 May 2009, 8:34 pm

twoshots wrote:

EvilZak wrote:

That would be option B - "is more interested in a grand godly purpose than in people".

That is a good point, but even the concept of "maximum good possible" doesn't really equate to caring about what happens to people - so I'd still put that in the category of a "grand godly purpose".

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15 May 2009, 2:07 pm

I have a thread all about it check it out.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt98731.html

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Pragmatica
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15 May 2009, 4:46 pm

Shadowgirl wrote:

I have a thread all about it check it out.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt98731.html

Is that a fact :?:

Or your opinion of the facts :?:

Experience proves, Jesus is expensive.

Doncostello
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18 May 2009, 8:29 am

nope. all religions are basicallyman being afraid about natural happenings and therefore making up irrational stories (see bible, quaran, torah) to stop themselves from being afraid, and failing miserably

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18 May 2009, 10:23 am

Doncostello wrote:

Using the relatively young and very weird Abrahamic religions as your only examples really isn't the way to go about studying the function of religion.

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