Page 7 of 8 [ 127 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

19 Oct 2009, 9:00 pm

SirTwittThornwaite wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I don't think there is any real discernible difference between countries and people. Just the level of education and the culture really. Tests and studies like these aren't exactly the most reliable indicator either.

There is no master race.


Culture, language and values are everything. Biological race is nothing. We are all mutts, every last one of us. Some of us have better manners than others.

ruveyn


I am not a mutt. I am 100% caucasian.


Yeah? What type?


_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

20 Oct 2009, 12:27 am

SirTwittThornwaite wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I don't think there is any real discernible difference between countries and people. Just the level of education and the culture really. Tests and studies like these aren't exactly the most reliable indicator either.

There is no master race.


Culture, language and values are everything. Biological race is nothing. We are all mutts, every last one of us. Some of us have better manners than others.

ruveyn


I am not a mutt. I am 100% caucasian.

You are from the region around the Caucasus mountain range in eastern Europe? Or you are just some generic white European, almost certainly a mix of a dozen different European ethnicities?


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Wombat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2006
Age: 76
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,051

20 Oct 2009, 7:08 am

Carlofirst wrote:
According to a recent study (Ulster University, 2006), the Germans and Dutch have the highest IQ in Europe: average 107.
This raises the question: Is there a 'master race' in North-western Europe ?


Yes it is true. See http://www.vdare.com/
However it is also true that the Chinese and the Japanese have an average IQ higher than 100.
And that the European Ashkenazie Jews have a higher IQ as well.

The problems start when the same studies show that other races have a much lower average IQ country by country.

"OMG, you cant SAY that! Even if it is TRUE. Because that would be RACIST!"



Confused-Fish
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 946
Location: trapped in a jar

20 Oct 2009, 10:03 am

Orwell wrote:
SirTwittThornwaite wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I don't think there is any real discernible difference between countries and people. Just the level of education and the culture really. Tests and studies like these aren't exactly the most reliable indicator either.

There is no master race.


Culture, language and values are everything. Biological race is nothing. We are all mutts, every last one of us. Some of us have better manners than others.

ruveyn


I am not a mutt. I am 100% caucasian.

You are from the region around the Caucasus mountain range in eastern Europe? Or you are just some generic white European, almost certainly a mix of a dozen different European ethnicities?


as well as Romani, Moorish, Turkish and various Asian peoples from near Asia/middle east and as far as eastern Asia. possibly some african, though I think that's restricted to a handful of European islands near Greece and im not even sure about that. and that's just going back into what would be relatively the near past.



-9
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 118
Location: Lafayette, Indiana, United States

20 Oct 2009, 10:07 am

There are much more valuable things than intelligence (no I'm not talking about physical strength). Your brain can take you far in life but your heart can take you exponentially farther.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

20 Oct 2009, 9:06 pm

-9 wrote:
There are much more valuable things than intelligence (no I'm not talking about physical strength). Your brain can take you far in life but your heart can take you exponentially farther.


The heart is a muscular pump that pushes blood to the various parts of the body.

ruveyn



AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

20 Oct 2009, 9:15 pm

ruveyn wrote:
-9 wrote:
There are much more valuable things than intelligence (no I'm not talking about physical strength). Your brain can take you far in life but your heart can take you exponentially farther.


The heart is a muscular pump that pushes blood to the various parts of the body.

ruveyn
Are you trying to make a point or did you simply take it literally? If you are making a point, then what is it?



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

21 Oct 2009, 1:31 am

AceOfSpades wrote:
]Are you trying to make a point or did you simply take it literally? If you are making a point, then what is it?


I state a fact. You might want to find a more precise way of expressing what you intended to write. Are you trying to say there are non rational factors at work which are more important to humans than reason or logic? If that is what you are trying to say, you are wrong. Nothing is more important than reason and logic.

ruveyn



Asmodeus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,520

21 Oct 2009, 4:19 am

A race can't be singled out from the pack that's significantly ahead of all others at everything, although some studies have shown mental or physical traits common to some races. Personally I'm waiting for gentically enhanced people, really give the world something to argue over.



SirTwittThornwaite
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 17 Oct 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 19

21 Oct 2009, 7:04 am

ruveyn wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
]Are you trying to make a point or did you simply take it literally? If you are making a point, then what is it?


I state a fact. You might want to find a more precise way of expressing what you intended to write. Are you trying to say there are non rational factors at work which are more important to humans than reason or logic? If that is what you are trying to say, you are wrong. Nothing is more important than reason and logic.

ruveyn


'The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing', Blaise Pascal



showman616
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 8 Feb 2009
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 170
Location: Washington DC, USA

11 Nov 2009, 9:24 pm

If dutch and germans are a master race then the Japanese are even more masterful, with the koreans, Chinese, and askenazi jews close behind--- if your gonna hang the mantle of masterrace on the slender peg of IQ tests.

One of the many problems with this scheme is the Flynn effect- every population gains seven to ten IQ points every 30 years. So are your own children a master race over you?

Are humans genetically evolving so fast that it causes IQ to rise that fast- or is the world just getting better educated and better feed etc?

If the latter than its likely that a geographically defined 'masterrace' is just as improbable as a temporalily defined "master race" caused by the flynn effect. Certain parts of world benifit from environment at different times in history more than others.

the Dutch and Germans who got their alphabet from the Romans, their number system from India, and thier God from Judae, were not viewed as intellectual giants by the ancients.

They were the barbarians Rome was holding back at the Rhine while Rome built its aqueducts and roads.

The Greeks and Romans themselves were illitereate barbarians at the time the Egyptians built the Pyramids and invented hyroglyphs ( the pyramids were as old as the Parthenon is now at the time the Parthenon was build).So does that mean the Egyptians were "a master race" genetically endowed to be more civilized than either northern or southern Europeans at the time of the Pyramids? Did the Egyptians somehow loose their genetic superiority?



LeMesurier
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 26

13 Nov 2009, 10:23 am

If you want to know more, become a Freemason. In the higher initiation degrees, they will tell you.



NarcissusSavage
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 675

13 Nov 2009, 11:47 am

There is no master race. The closest race to fill that description is the human one....But, the average human being is only semi self conscious, and has minimal self awareness. We do have a number of individual thinkers who have held responsibilities and achieved great things, although, they are great only in comparison to the normal average member of our race.

I honestly wish people would stop claiming or inferring a particular ethnicity or skin color indicated a different race. We are all human. While yes there are variety amongst us of nearly every attribute that could be variable, we are yet to see a species offshoot. And if there ever is one, humanity would probably try to kill em anyway. Xenophobes >.<


_________________
I am Ignostic.
Go ahead and define god, with universal acceptance of said definition.
I'll wait.


hf15341
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 1

28 Nov 2009, 11:32 pm

If this is to be true it is surely a socioeconomic occurrence. IQ is not entirely composed of genetics. For instance children do not learn to reason completely on their own, they have the guidance and wisdom of there parents to mold the intellects of the youngsters. Here's an example of that; lets take two equally potentially gifted children. One is from a poor Harlem neighborhood with an abusive mother who never taught the child how to read, lets also say that its elementary does not do its duties as an educational facility. The other is from a privileged household with supporting and loving parents who send the child to well funded and prestigious prep school. There is no doubt that the latter child (if both are taken in for an IQ test) will score higher. Also to some extent we almost still hold a caste system in America, a rather flexible one, yet still in some sense a caste system (Children born into poverty are more than likely going to stay in poverty, success stories or the american dream wouldn't be so special if they happened all the time). This invisible caste system gives us the false illusion that some races are better then others. The circumstances I have laid out previously is the very foundation of our societies infrastructure wether intended to come off that way or not. In reality the little difference in IQ's among races comes only from socioeconomic principles and maybe a tad bit of natural selection. Remember there is no definitive IQ for one race there is only the average.



Magnus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,372
Location: Claremont, California

29 Nov 2009, 12:06 am

I agree.

hf15341 wrote:
If this is to be true it is surely a socioeconomic occurrence. IQ is not entirely composed of genetics. For instance children do not learn to reason completely on their own, they have the guidance and wisdom of there parents to mold the intellects of the youngsters. Here's an example of that; lets take two equally potentially gifted children. One is from a poor Harlem neighborhood with an abusive mother who never taught the child how to read, lets also say that its elementary does not do its duties as an educational facility. The other is from a privileged household with supporting and loving parents who send the child to well funded and prestigious prep school. There is no doubt that the latter child (if both are taken in for an IQ test) will score higher.


There is also a kind of intelligence which comes from the heart (perhaps it's a will) which allows for the child who comes from an impoverished background to become extraordinary despite the odds against him.


_________________
As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.

-Pythagoras


Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

29 Nov 2009, 1:21 am

Wombat wrote:
However it is also true that the Chinese and the Japanese have an average IQ higher than 100.
And that the European Ashkenazie Jews have a higher IQ as well.

The problems start when the same studies show that other races have a much lower average IQ country by country.

"OMG, you cant SAY that! Even if it is TRUE. Because that would be RACIST!"


I find the concept of an iq test deplorable.

It puts one firmly in their place in life and they go no higher. A person that tests at 140(but doesnt know it), wont say "oh, but that person has 160, they are smarter than me.

All that matters is practical and personal achievement.

Now onto your statement.

Several criteria are left out in iq test statistics. Average is only one factor. There is a mean(the average), a median, a mode, and a range. As well, you have to consider error and personal daily/weekly/lifetime variance.

For example, perhaps the middle two standard deviations for IQ among a ethnic group is 75-135. Whats the average? 105. Thats higher than the average. But the low end is lower too.

consider this

1 2 3 4 5 5 6 7 8 9 10

Whats the average(mode)? 6. See, thats like 100 iq.

Whats the median? Its 5.5.

How about the mode? Its 5. It occurs most. That means most of these people are under the average. Its possible.

How about the range? 9.

And thats the problem with poor ethnic groups. Their low end paints an unfair picture.

1 2 3 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

See that? two 3s in the low end, but a higher number too.. eleven.

average 5.75 (a higher average IQ? No.)
median 5.5
mode? its 3.
range? 10.

These two scales can not be fairly compared. This is part of the reason that there are separate IQ tests for children and adults. Likewise, IQ tests must be tuned for cultural groups, and cannot be truly compared.

The other problem, seen with aspies all the time is inconsistent tests. Perhaps a person is a genius at math, but is greatly deficient at language skills. Or they can write, but their verbal skills are bad.

Plain average is a terrible way to make an assessment.

Whoever told you these facts is as biased as the scientists that claimed autistics do not daydream, as detailed here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4751075.stm

Confirmation bias. They made up their minds before hand and then found what they were looking for. Lousy science.

What they really found is that autistics dont use their brains the same way as regular folks. Shocking, informative, isnt it?

Can you day dream? If you are an aspie, can you only half day dream?


_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.