Mandatory Vaccines: Should They Truly Be Compulsory?

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Trying to vaccinate people who don't want to be vaccinated is more dangerous than any virus.
Too much of a complicated task to be carried out.
Specially in these times when people trust government less and less.

Do you understand what I was talking about in my previous post? I quoted someone else who said that public health and safety outweighed one's "personal preferences". I asked him/her if those who can't take vaccines due to a medical condition should be exempt from vaccination in times of an epidemic.

You do realize that the 1918 flu killed more Americans in a month than all the combined wars of the twentieth century, right? When there's a war on, people understand the need to put aside some of the usual objections to some infringements of personal liberty, but when we're dealing with something far more destructive, they get all whiny and bitchy about it. I'll never understand the human incapacity to move beyond the availability heuristic. It's a sh***y way of trying to find answers, and it almost never works. Give it up.

LJ: I'm not going to endorse Ruveyn's stand anywhere. He's the local fascist around here. I will say this: people working in hospitals do need to either be vaccinated or get the hell out of healthcare work during flu season. Otherwise a lot of people are going to die unnecessarily. I think it is pretty universally acknowledged, even among the most ardent libertarians, that your personal liberty does not extend to situations where your decisions are getting other people killed.

Why would I get other people killed?
They took the vaccine, they have nothing to fear, right?

Without getting into the more technical epidemiology side of things, the benefits of vaccination are greatest when a large percentage of the population is vaccinated. If you have a certain threshold immunized (depending on the population size, I think it's about 90% for many diseases, higher for more contagious ones) then the population actually can't sustain an epidemic- the disease just dies out. There are some people who can't be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons (as opposed to for mindless paranoia) and there are people who don't have access to medical care or vaccination. You are putting these people at risk if you refuse to be vaccinated. Also, since vaccines are not 100% effective in producing immunity, you are still endangering people who have been vaccinated.

It's far worse if you work in healthcare, because then you're around people who are sick, so you're more likely to pick up the disease and then spread it to people with already-weakend immune systems.

No virus has EVER died out by vaccination.

Viruses emerge for reasons and people get it for other reasons.

If you want to let vaccines do the work you'll only be weakening your immune system.
We don't see horses or pigs dieing because of pandemics, and if there was a pandemic it would be a natural thing, to regulate the numbers and/or to eradicate certain species from certain places.

Humans have reproduced tremendously. They hurt the planet more than help it. Their hygiene is minimal in some areas. Pollution, deforestation, resource depletion, animal life destroyed to make their houses for more people, et cetera...
If nature is wise, pandemics would be a great thing for the strong and healthy strain of humanity.

For permanent results treat the cause not the symptoms.

Are you serious? Heard about bird flu? Myxomatosis?




This is an old magical way of thinking.
The virus is the cause, by vaccinating you prevent the virus from settling and reproducing and propagating. That is the permanent solution.

There are people who cannot take vaccines and have weak immune systems. So , if you don't take the vaccine, get a virus and survive, there are still chance that your infection caused spread of the virus towards these people and ended up killing them (and all because you wanted to be original, congratulations!). There is also the thing about herd immunity. When you vaccinate a person, there is a small chance the person will still get infected. So it is best to have a large herd immunity to just prevent the proliferation of the virus and reduce this risk.

No. it isn't. Not by a far shot.

However, the ignorance among the people that 'don't want to be vaccinated' might be certainly be more dangerous than a virus. The vaccine scare mongering has already caused deaths by virus diseases that were already preventable, so we can say that these 'activists' are at least more dangerous than the Measles virus... If they get their way and herd immunity is destroyed they will kill a lot more people.

Neither of these facts is a good reason not to get vaccinated.

Bull.

No matter if the virus itself is not exterminated. Vaccines have been succesful at preventing these diseases. The fact anti-vaccine ret*ds do not fear measles anymore is proof that measles has not been a threat to us in the recent times. but it was quite bad before vaccinations. If you succeed with scare mongering, calls for 'liberty' and disinformation though, we may as well see once again how bad can measles get...

BS. We got rid of smallpox, and most childhood diseases are things of the past (at least in developed countries).


You've never studied any immunology, have you?


Quit anthropomorphizing nature. Pandemics do not have some sort of regulatory purpose. Nature doesn't decide "There are too many horses here, I think I'll kill them with an exotic new disease."


I'll ignore the scientific inaccuracy you're spewing here and just retort: You first. I plan on surviving this winter.

Also, again, stop anthropomorphizing nature. It is not "wise." It does not act as a cohesive whole.

I don't care if they have a weak immune system, it's not my problem, they need to come up with a solution themselves.
I didn't kill them, they died because they were weak... This strengthens our species, this is part of a natural process that you people cannot understand and use violence against others to get your agenda through.
I don't agree with that principle of violence.

The bottom line is, any of you try to vaccinate people who don't want to be vaccinated, be ready to die because we are not going to take your suspicious chemicals in our bodies.

Smallpox-like viruses can emerge any day. Viruses will come and go.
Smallpox did not disappear because of vaccination you intellectually dishonest liar.

I wont get the vaccine, period, you want to force me, I'll defend myself, why is that so hard to understand?

If millions of people have to die because of a virus and they don't want to take the vaccines, let them, worry about yourself, you'll be vaccinated and you'll be immune to what other people is dieing off.

You can't convince me that forcing people to take vaccines is a good thing.
I could never do that, it is not in me to be a fascist that forces people to take chemicals into their bodies without their consent.
That should be the focus of the matter, not if vaccines work or not.

I wonder if ASPER will be the first to live up to his Social Darwinism and reject all medical treatments. After all, treating the sick only "weakens the species" in general!

By that rationale, the BHS shouldn't have given so much care to the "medically inferior" Stephen Hawkings.

I love how you throw around the word "Fascist" after identifying yourself with the tenants of social Darwinism.

Why the hell is it that the people who call others "Fascist" the most seem to be the most Fascistic (old, far-right, paranoid conspiracy theorizing ultra-nationalists)?

I'm not saying I will reject all medical treatments, you are saying that trying to ridicule me.
(I've never said vaccines are not effective either)
I've never said that weak people should not be helped, I was just talking regarding pandemics and forcing people into taking the vaccines, again, you are trying to ridicule me.

My point is, don't force people to take any medical treatments, if they want to die let them die.

You got it all wrong.
I'm not a fascist, I'm not wanting to FORCE anyone. You people want to FORCE others.
I'm 23, I'm not far-right nor far-left nor political, conspiracy theories are not my thing and I am anti-State... You got it ALL wrong.

Not really, no...


Do not call me a liar, you paranoid, delusional crackpot. The WHO vaccination program was a tremendous success in eradicating smallpox. We haven't had a single case of smallpox anywhere in the world since the 1970s thanks to vaccination. These are the facts, and you have nothing against them but your own insanity.


Fine. I don't think the world loses too much if you take yourself out of the gene pool. Just stay away from hospitals so you don't spread disease to others.