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If I'm not quite a Christian, can I still join a church?

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Should I Go To Church?
Yes - Jesus Saves! 11%  11%  [ 5 ]
Yes - If you find that it helps you 30%  30%  [ 13 ]
No - You would be lying about your beliefs 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
No - Religion is a poison 11%  11%  [ 5 ]
Eh, it's up to you 43%  43%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 44

TheOddGoat
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28 Jan 2010, 6:52 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Ah, I've seen that study Bible. I also found it deeply disappointing and full of fundamentalist drivel. If I recall correctly, at one point it tried to refute quantum mechanics, and it also said that scientific laws do not always hold, citing as evidence a truly pathetic misunderstanding of Newton's Second Law.

Well, Norman Geisler isn't my choice of a philosopher.(he's a contributor to that Bible though)

Here's his statement on evolution:
"Further, time does not help evolution nor hinder creation. No matter how much time one posits, natural laws and random processes do not produce the irreducible complexity and specified complexity we find in living things. Red, white, and blue confetti dropped from an airplane will never produce the America Flag on your lawn. And giving it more time to fall (by going up higher to drop it) only accentuates the problem by mixing the falling confetti up more."
http://www.worldviewtimes.com/article.p ... rm-Geisler (it's buried in this review of a book, I just remember it from reading it a few years back)


Oh wow, I've seen the light thanks to Norman.

I had no idea confetti could self replicate.



Tim_Tex
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28 Jan 2010, 7:17 am

I would recommend either an Episcopal or Lutheran church.


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reginaterrae
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28 Jan 2010, 8:44 am

MissPickwickian,

Go for it. Episcopalian would probably suit you fine. Also maybe Methodist?

I also very highly recommend reading Amazing Grace, by Kathleen Norris. In it she explores a lot of the language and concepts that can tend to turn modern people off from church. She is a poet, and like me, she approaches Christianity as something like a metaphorical language through which to approach the divine, with many layers of meaning beyond the superficial and literal. It's really a beautiful book.

Regina



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28 Jan 2010, 9:47 am

Reading what you wrote, I would not recommend Episcopal or Lutheran. It seems UU may be a better fit.

You honestly sound like somebody who may benefit more from a congregationalist or unitarian-universalist (UU) congregation. UU is not so much into religous dogma, in fact it is a central principle of thier religion. They have a long history of being advocates for social justice. From what I know they were the first church in the country to support gay marriage. They are less "christiany", they have moved towards more of an intellectual approach to religion(s) and are really open to listening to any faith. Thier primary history though is as a liberal christian church. Honestly, the not quite a Christian, and being turned off by fundimentalist docterine sounds awfully UU to me. If you are really turned off by Dogma, this is probably your best bet. The church is really about finding your own truth through approaching multiple faiths, but it tends to lean towards Christianity and Humanist philosophy.

You may also want to look into a congregationalist church if you want something that is more straightfoward christianity. Again it is mostly a liberal faith, but each congregation is indipendant, so this can vary depending on the particular congregation. They tend to be non-dogmatic christian churches though more often than not.



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28 Jan 2010, 2:30 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Also, I am guessing (yet again) that the Islam thing didn't work out?


It's creepy how much you remember about me.

No, the Islam thing did not work out. Islam is a fascinating religion that is worth any intellectual's time and interest, but it is certainly not for everyone. I found it too rigid (does God really command that one pray at certain times of the day?), too fundamentally sexist (menstruating women unclean?), and too politicized ("Palestine palestine balistine blahistine blah blah blah blah blah"---my Imam).

Islam actually left its mark on me, even if it didn't match up to my deepest beliefs about the nature of the universe. I still have Muslim friends, and I now harbor a weakness for Islamic art and poetry. Also, over the course of my veil-wearing months, I learned a lot about the complex relationship that women have with the world at large, and I became a fourth-wave feminist. Even if it's annoying to have to explain to my extended family that "all that" was "just a phase", I wouldn't sacrifice the experience.

Ah, the Unitarian Universalists. I sporadically attend a Unitarian church in my town, but I find that it offers little in the way of spiritual comfort and much in the way of overzealous activism. I posted this because I am thinking of going to an Episcopal church instead.


Are Moslems who renounce their religion required to have their heads chopped off?



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28 Jan 2010, 2:43 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
Two Christmases ago, my aunt gave me something called The Apologetics' Study Bible. It had a picture of Rodin's "The Thinker" on the cover, and it puported to be a philosopher's study Bible, a thoughtful meditation on what it means to be Christian. When I opened it up, however, I was confronted with fundamentalist musings on creationism, eternal damnation, the Satanic origins of Buddhism, the "unnaturalness" of homosexuality, and the "reliability" of even the most improbable Bible stories. I was crestfallen; I knew that I could never be a Christian if being a Christian meant accepting such things.

Fast forward two years. I am going through a difficult time in my life. I crave fellowship and comfort, and I am thinking that joining one of the more liberal Christian churches in my community might lend meaning and purpose to my life. The problem? As I said above, I can't swallow all the dogma.

So, should I join a liberal Christian church?

Pros:
- An easy path to volunteerism through ministries (I'm big on helping people)
- Increased social interaction
- Structure
- Calming services Sunday morning
- Free counseling

Cons:
- Might end up lying about my beliefs


Not all Christians feel this way, it's all a matter of finding the right church.

I felt similarly to you a few years ago. Growing up Catholic and later finding out that I didn't believe in a God, I was under the impression that Christianity was a very unwelcoming religion that did not welcome different faiths and believed things like homosexuality was a sin and there was only one way to heaven. I was invited by one of my friends to come to one of his Bible study groups, and went just to see what it was like. The people there were very intelligent and welcoming, and discussed the Bible in a ways that I would never have imagined. They were very thoughtful and open about their religion dove very deeply into the underlying meaning of what Jesus preached. I think they were Baptist or something....not sure exactly.

But anyway there are churches like that out there who will not care if you are Christian or not. Just be open and accepting to their faith and I'm sure they will provide you with a lot of support. But don't join a church where you feel as if you have to lie about your beliefs.



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31 Jan 2010, 12:24 am

pandabear wrote:
Are Moslems who renounce their religion required to have their heads chopped off?


In some countries that would be the penalty, yes, but there is no original Islamic mandate that calls for death in such a case (recall that Muhammad had Jewish and Christian friends).


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31 Jan 2010, 12:37 am

pandabear wrote:
MissPickwickian wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Also, I am guessing (yet again) that the Islam thing didn't work out?


It's creepy how much you remember about me.

No, the Islam thing did not work out. Islam is a fascinating religion that is worth any intellectual's time and interest, but it is certainly not for everyone. I found it too rigid (does God really command that one pray at certain times of the day?), too fundamentally sexist (menstruating women unclean?), and too politicized ("Palestine palestine balistine blahistine blah blah blah blah blah"---my Imam).

Islam actually left its mark on me, even if it didn't match up to my deepest beliefs about the nature of the universe. I still have Muslim friends, and I now harbor a weakness for Islamic art and poetry. Also, over the course of my veil-wearing months, I learned a lot about the complex relationship that women have with the world at large, and I became a fourth-wave feminist. Even if it's annoying to have to explain to my extended family that "all that" was "just a phase", I wouldn't sacrifice the experience.

Ah, the Unitarian Universalists. I sporadically attend a Unitarian church in my town, but I find that it offers little in the way of spiritual comfort and much in the way of overzealous activism. I posted this because I am thinking of going to an Episcopal church instead.


Are Moslems who renounce their religion required to have their heads chopped off?


It applies only to those who were born and raised as Muslims. Converts from other religions are generally given time to reconsider. If they don't, a tribunal contemplates whether to execute or punish the person depending on the level of his/her apostasy. Many points are taken into consideration, such as the "apostate's" hatred towards Islam (if any), whether the person has chosen to be another monotheist, atheist or polytheist, 'sanity', etc.

And yes, as MissP said, this law was probably never applied during the time of prophet Muhammad himself. For example, when they were in exile, a companion of the prophet decided to become a Christian, and abandoned his wife, who continued to remain a Muslim. Rather than calling for his punishment, prophet Muhammad married the woman, and asked people to accept the man's decision.

The apostasy law was applied after the reign of the first Caliph, when many tribes of Arabia reverted to polytheism, and rebelled. Thus, since then, Muslims have considered apostasy to be the same as treason. Generally, the Qur'an states that there is no compulsion of religion.



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31 Jan 2010, 1:28 am

MissPickwickian wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Are Moslems who renounce their religion required to have their heads chopped off?


In some countries that would be the penalty, yes, but there is no original Islamic mandate that calls for death in such a case (recall that Muhammad had Jewish and Christian friends).

According to a strong consensus of Sharia, an adult male apostate should be put to death unless they were mentally ill or committed apostasy under duress. Many interpretations also extend this punishment to women, and it is believed that the practice of killing apostates began during Muhammad's time- he may have had some Jewish and Christian friends, but generally speaking he and his fledgling religion did not get on well with Jews, and many passages in the Qur'an take a condescending attitude towards "people of the book."

But of course such brutal aspects of Islam are not practiced anywhere in the civilized world.


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31 Jan 2010, 9:26 am

I'm an athiest but was in a church choir for years when I was younger. I was there because I enjoyed the music. I find religion and the effects of religious worship fascinating, because I personally don't believe in anything that spiritual and it's amazing how it can affect people when they do believe. I would even like to try other religious places of worship just to voyeur...Rightly or wrongly so.



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31 Jan 2010, 10:45 am

A good church will not force you to lie or pretend to believe, or ban you from helping them do good things just because you don't believe every trivial dogmatic detail that makes
them different than all the other churches. If they do, then
look for another one to share your help with. Why not just
ask right away if they mind that you don't believe everything
they say, and avoid lying or wasting time?



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31 Jan 2010, 4:48 pm

Houses of God topic

I have visited many houses of worship and find the congregants there very accepting, no matter what the faith--and this included Islam. However, I live in Canada, but worshipers in other countries may or may not be as accommodating.


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01 Feb 2010, 10:44 am

I would recommend church of scientology.

They allow and even encourage many people of faiths.


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01 Feb 2010, 5:15 pm

Personally i would either find some sort of Church or religion that i`d fully believe in (and i`m sure almost no matter which segments of holy books you believe there is some sort Church fit just for that) and work under it`s name, or join some non-religion-based group(s) that does these things you want to participate in. I find the "middle way" of joining a group you sort of believe in, but not really, to be the worst and only serves to strengthen the Churches majority is unhappy with in the first place. Then again this sort of thinking made me an atheist over time so ... :lol:



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19 Feb 2010, 11:09 pm

ORWELL WROTE:

Quote:
Quote:
So, should I join a liberal Christian church?

Sure. You'll find that the liberal churches are not very dogmatic at all. In my church, the only requirement for membership is faith in Jesus Christ, and they even relaxed that requirement for a Jew who wanted to join the community. No one in the congregation puts much stock in the issues you mentioned above—few, if any, are creationists, most probably don't emphasize eternal damnation, no one calls Buddhism Satanic, and the church is generally supportive of gay rights. There are plenty of other such churches in the country, but you might have to look harder to find one in Tennessee.


There's Unitarian churches in Tennessee - although there has been some tragedy surrounding such an institution.



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19 Feb 2010, 11:18 pm

I find myself frightened and to be honest a little disgusted by how moderen society has begun to define the word "church".