Communism or Fascism - which is the lesser of two evils?

Page 1 of 4 [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Crion87
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 182
Location: Victoria, Australia

05 Mar 2010, 6:26 am

Exactly what the subject says on the tin.

Which out of Communism or Fascism would you deem the lesser of two evils?

Thanks for answering, please try to be intelligent in your answer.


_________________
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
Andre Gide
French critic, essayist, & novelist (1869 - 1951)


Unorthodox
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 95
Location: Northwest USA

05 Mar 2010, 6:28 am

I would say that communism probably has less evil intent behind it, but that both lead to equally evil outcomes.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

05 Mar 2010, 7:38 am

I'd say in practice they're not too different from each other. It's kinda like asking whether you'd rather get kicked in the groin or punched in the face. Any form of total government is evil.



Henriksson
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,534
Location: Sweden

05 Mar 2010, 8:34 am

Before answering, I'd like to know what the definition of "Fascism" and "Communism" is in this context.


_________________
"Purity is for drinking water, not people" - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Vince
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 688
Location: Sweden

05 Mar 2010, 11:25 am

It kinda depends on what you mean by communism. Some people like to make the argument that communism is a process and the political system it creates is colored by the state of the nation before communism was brought to it and the ways in which change is made. That's not to say that it's ever going to be a good process. It's based on good intent but it takes it way too far with rather confused means. Communism is at the core about trying to achieve a classless society, and the ways it has been applied in the past have been very misguided, and future attempts are likely to also be highly problematic, although brought into a democratic society it probably wouldn't be near as bad as Fascism, which is at the core all about oppression and control. So yeah, communism is probably the lesser of two evils in this case, but then there's also there definition where dictatorship and all those other parts are implied, which might be more of a tie.
But boiled down to just the core idea, I'd say communism isn't evil, just naïve and unrealistic as it doesn't take into account the nature of humanity and the fact that power more often corrupts than doesn't.
Communism is supposed to be the government helping the people help eachother. You can't trust governments to keep doing that. Sooner or later they'll start using the people to help themselves.
Fascism is supposed to be about the people being servants of the government right from the start.
Communism is a cute fantasy, but it doesn't work. It's more likely than not to morph into Fascism (especially in a non-democratic society where there's no failsafe).
Fascism isn't even cute in the idea stage. It's basically corruption as an ideology.


_________________
I'm Vince. I make the music. And puppet.
http://www.swenglish.nu


Descartes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,288
Location: Texas, unfortunately

05 Mar 2010, 11:34 am

I find it interesting that both extreme ends of the political spectrum involve total government power.



rjgarn
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2009
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 91
Location: Flagstaff, AZ

05 Mar 2010, 11:54 am

If by communism, you're referring to the ideas espoused in Marx's Das Kapital and the Manifesto, then you probably might want to make an effort to actually read these works. They are anything but evil, and unless you subscribe to the Cult of Ayn Rand, you'd probably find them rather interesting.

That being said if you're (more likely scenario here) referring to the garbage Stalin/Mao-ist regimes that haunted Eastern Europe and other parts of the world for the late 20th century, then yes, that is pretty evil.

Now to answer your question; I personally can see very little differences between the Stalinist Nations, and the Facsist Regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Batista, Franco, or Pinochet. All of them used fear and brutal suppression of political opponents and free press to stay in power. They all had state-controlled markets, they all had a personality cult based around their leader(s), and they all massacred countless innocents. The only major difference that I can see is that one group liked to do business with American corporations, and rub the feet of our leaders so they would turn a blind eye, while the other did not.



Henriksson
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,534
Location: Sweden

05 Mar 2010, 11:55 am

Descartes wrote:
I find it interesting that both extreme ends of the political spectrum involve total government power.

Not necessarily:

Wikipedia wrote:
"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.


That Fascism is the extreme end of the political spectrum is also disputed by many, who argue that it has had influences from the left as well.


_________________
"Purity is for drinking water, not people" - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


phil777
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 May 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,825
Location: Montreal, Québec

05 Mar 2010, 12:11 pm

Hey Henrik, changed your avatar to Age of Mythology's Loki? :p



orange
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 17

05 Mar 2010, 12:38 pm

Neither. Fascism is totalitarianism, communism is totalitarianism. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

The idea of the "lesser of two evils" bugs me because it implies there is no "non-evil" choice that can be made, when there certainly are alternatives much more pleasant than the ones presented.



Henriksson
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,534
Location: Sweden

05 Mar 2010, 12:41 pm

phil777 wrote:
Hey Henrik, changed your avatar to Age of Mythology's Loki? :p

I think he portrays my inner self quite well. :P


_________________
"Purity is for drinking water, not people" - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


TitusLucretiusCarus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 518

05 Mar 2010, 1:22 pm

Quote:
please try to be intelligent in your answer.


try asking an intelligent question first.



Descartes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,288
Location: Texas, unfortunately

05 Mar 2010, 5:05 pm

From what I've learned in Economics class, Marx championed socialism and Lenin championed communism.



TitusLucretiusCarus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 518

05 Mar 2010, 5:21 pm

then you've been taught entirely wrong - socialism is a word that came into general usage in place of the distinction Marx drew between the lower stage of communism (with proletarian state - the socialism usually spoken of by Marxists) and the higher phase of communism (the state withered away, global community of free people consuming and producing in a democratically planned economy). Lenin did not veer from this one iota.



Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,008
Location: Houston, Texas

05 Mar 2010, 5:31 pm

For me, it's hard to say. The only difference is the actual "aim", but when it comes to overall organizational structure, they're both the same.

Fascism is usually centered around national pride.

Communism is centered around equality for the nation's citizens, but that rarely happens in all actuality.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


Descartes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,288
Location: Texas, unfortunately

05 Mar 2010, 5:52 pm

TitusLucretiusCarus wrote:
then you've been taught entirely wrong - socialism is a word that came into general usage in place of the distinction Marx drew between the lower stage of communism (with proletarian state - the socialism usually spoken of by Marxists) and the higher phase of communism (the state withered away, global community of free people consuming and producing in a democratically planned economy). Lenin did not veer from this one iota.


What I meant was Marx introduced the idea of socialism.