Hypothetical: The Tea Party Succeeds in Smashing the State

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DirkWillems
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17 Mar 2010, 7:32 pm

NeantHumain wrote:

Money is another tricky thing. Our U.S. dollars are actually Federal Reserve notes, and our coinage is minted by the U.S. Mint. Obviously in an anarchical system, the government would not be playing these roles. What this means is what is used as money would be established by convention—agreement among parties—rather than legal tender. I can see Federal Reserve notes and U.S. coins continuing in circulation for a time until a few major privatized moneys are established (e.g., Cool Bucks!).

What do you think would happen? (I've avoided mentioning any directly dystopian scenarios here myself.)

The Tea Party is strictly Constitutional conservative. The money issue now is controlled by a private bank, the Federal Reserve. The Constitution grants sole money issuing power to the Congress and is not authorized to be privatized in any shape or form. The system as we have it now is unconstitutional in that respect and the Fed should be abolished.

DirkWillems
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17 Mar 2010, 7:33 pm

Orwell wrote:

Jimbeaux wrote:

The wars weren't illegal, unless you consider all military actions outside of the five times war was declared (like the Barbary Pirates wars, the Vietnam war, the Korean war, etc.) to be illegal, which is not the general consensus.

We've been over the issue before here in PPR. Look, the Secretary General of the United Nations said the invasion of Iraq was illegal. It was in blatant violation of various US and international laws. Vietnam also was illegal. If you want, we can go through history with an enumeration of all the wars we've fought and which ones were "legal," but if you want to do that you have to remember that international law today is very different from what it was a century ago.

Anyways, you can't answer the charges of civil rights violations, and that is a much more important mark of fascism.

Quote:

I also must have a different definition of Theocrats than you, as I don't consider someone a Theocrat just because they have strong religious beliefs, but rather directly translate all "sins" in the Bible (or whatever the source) into a violation of the law. The first action of a true Theocrat would have to be the repealing of the First Amendment. I don't see the majority of the Tea Party members as wanting to do that, nor most of the people who support Huckabee and/or Palin.

Huckabee/Palin and their supporters are in favor of pushing their beliefs on others, and in some cases are willing to push censorship laws and such to stifle views which oppose their own.

Quote:

It is a self-applied label among those in the movement. It's not my fault they have no idea what they're saying.

No, it is a pejorative given to them by leftists acting like 12 year olds mistakenly thinking they are clever.

Nope, the label was claimed by the teabaggers themselves before they realized what it meant. As I said, it is not my fault this movement is composed of idiots.

And Huckabee and Palin have absolutely nothing to do with the Tea Parties I might add.

pandabear
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17 Mar 2010, 7:35 pm

For the benefit of those of us who are not quite up on modern slang:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... =teabagger

Quartz11
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17 Mar 2010, 9:14 pm

DirkWillems wrote:

And Huckabee and Palin have absolutely nothing to do with the Tea Parties I might add.

Wasn't Palin paid $100k to speak at a Tea Party convention in Nashville not too long ago?

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17 Mar 2010, 10:39 pm

Quartz11 wrote:

DirkWillems wrote:

And Huckabee and Palin have absolutely nothing to do with the Tea Parties I might add.

Wasn't Palin paid $100k to speak at a Tea Party convention in Nashville not too long ago?

Aw, come on, don't let facts get in the way of some good right-wing indignation. We all know reality has a liberal bias and thus is not to be trusted.

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Orwell
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17 Mar 2010, 10:46 pm

DirkWillems wrote:

The Tea Party is strictly Constitutional conservative.

Aside from the fact that essentially none of them have a solid understanding of Constitutional law, of course.

Quote:

The money issue now is controlled by a private bank, the Federal Reserve. The Constitution grants sole money issuing power to the Congress and is not authorized to be privatized in any shape or form. The system as we have it now is unconstitutional in that respect and the Fed should be abolished.

The Fed is not a private bank. It's a public bank with private elements, sort of a hybrid mixed system. Anyways, if we had a fully public national bank you'd be screaming about socialism. What happened to the belief that the private sector is always better?

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Awesomelyglorious
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17 Mar 2010, 11:24 pm

Orwell wrote:

Aside from the fact that essentially none of them have a solid understanding of Constitutional law, of course.

The Constitution is a living document, Orwell. This means that it fits exactly what they think it believes, especially with the less knowledge they have on what it actually says.

Orwell
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17 Mar 2010, 11:32 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Aside from the fact that essentially none of them have a solid understanding of Constitutional law, of course.

The Constitution is a living document, Orwell. This means that it fits exactly what they think it believes, especially with the less knowledge they have on what it actually says.

Your statement directly contradicts the prevailing view among the Tea Party movement- they tend to believe in originalism as opposed to the living document view.

But it occurs to me now that you were probably being sarcastic.

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Awesomelyglorious
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17 Mar 2010, 11:49 pm

Orwell wrote:

Your statement directly contradicts the prevailing view among the Tea Party movement- they tend to believe in originalism as opposed to the living document view.

That's what they want you to think! Y'see, they hold all things to be living. Thus, not only is the constitution living, but so are the words they use to describe their positions. The tea party movement is so deeply entrenched in postmodern skepticism that it is hard to really tell what they believe in. Well.... other than birth to death government intervention and welfare.

Jimbeaux
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19 Mar 2010, 8:59 am

pandabear wrote:

These "Tea Party" members are just a bunch of unemployed kooks who don't have enough income to pay income tax anyway. They have nothing better to do than to sit around all day watching Fox News, And, when Fox News tells them to show up at a protest, at an hour when other people are at work, they put together their signs and show up for the Fox News TV cameras.

And once again, it is proven that the worst thing about ignorance is its insistence.

Jimbeaux
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19 Mar 2010, 9:02 am

Sand wrote:

By your uncompromising statements I take it that you would prefer nobody pay any taxes and you would be happy with the consequences.

No, we need to pay some taxes. Just not nearly so much. Ever since the end of WW2, no matter what the upper tax rate has been, from 90% to 28%, the government never collects outside of 6.4% and 8.2% of GDP in income taxes. Lowering the tax rate enables the economy to grow more rapidly and thus increases the amount of money coming into the federal government. This is a proven fact.

Sand
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19 Mar 2010, 9:05 am

Jimbeaux wrote:

Sand wrote:

By your uncompromising statements I take it that you would prefer nobody pay any taxes and you would be happy with the consequences.

Aaah. The Laffer curve nonsense again.

Jimbeaux
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19 Mar 2010, 9:09 am

Orwell wrote:

The secretary general has zero authority over a sovereign country. Anyway, Iraq violated the terms of the first gulf war cease fire when Hussein throw out the UN weapons inspectors in 1998, so anytime after that, even by the UN's pretend laws, they were fair game.

Quote:

Anyways, you can't answer the charges of civil rights violations, and that is a much more important mark of fascism.

Difference between "can't" and "didn't have time to". What citizens' civil rights were violated? The only thing that comes close to that is phone tapping, and if I recall, that was only on calls coming in from suspected or known terrorists calling into the US from abroad.

Quote:

Huckabee/Palin and their supporters are in favor of pushing their beliefs on others, and in some cases are willing to push censorship laws and such to stifle views which oppose their own.

The only thing I can see is abortion, and that is more about protecting life than forcing opinions on anyone else.

Quote:

Nope, the label was claimed by the teabaggers themselves before they realized what it meant. As I said, it is not my fault this movement is composed of idiots.

Please. The day the tea parties started, I heart smarmy leftists calling them teabaggers. And idiots? I know a lot of people involved with the tea party movement and they are a hell of a lot smarter than any of you liberals here.

Jimbeaux
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19 Mar 2010, 9:10 am

Sand wrote:

Aaah. The Laffer curve nonsense again.

It is a proven, inarguable fact.

Sand
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19 Mar 2010, 9:21 am

Jimbeaux wrote:

Sand wrote:

Aaah. The Laffer curve nonsense again.