Why can't the US live within their means?

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The most politically correct answer for America to balance their budgets would be liberalizing, liberalizing and more liberalizing America's economy, by reducing taxes to a level where the maximum tax revenues on the Laffer curve is reached. (Because I think America taxed too much till the maximum tax revenues are not reached)

On the supply side, America should try to see what are the spending that would go to waste. We know healthcare (more liberalization to lower costs, please) and military spending (just protect the United States and not policing the whole world, you know Okinawa's protests against American installation of military bases there?) Some may not be popular because they might not really reflect America's status as the only superpower in the world, but this helps.

On the demand side, financial regulation should be done, because I see lawyers, bankers and some scheming entrepreneurs inflating the whole economy as they seem to share money amongst themselves, without any real growth for the poorer people. This is why any cutbacks in troops may shook some of the poor people, because without the expanding army, how can they 'fall back' as they have no jobs and no pensions?

Look at America --- it's not the matter of a green lifestyle where people don't drive SUVs and whatsoever --- even Singaporeans, Chinese, Canadians and even some British and Australians, despite them claiming they are trying to be green, all at some point or another, drive SUVs! And it's not a matter of not building McMansions. Look at how large the houses in suburban Beijing and Shanghai and maybe Kuala Lumpur and Sydney are! To the OP, if your original intentions is to promote the green lifestyle and to make other Americans feel proud of America, I am sorry I did not really answer your question the way you wanted. Because I can't.

On a factual standpoint, simple living is possible for a few. But asking most people to live simply when they are rich, how can they do that when they are rich? What else would they had worked so hard for? They had earned what they wanted using their talents, be they unfair or not, so why not just let them be?

I am not a poor American, I am just a Singaporean who just happens to be concerned about America. I am grateful for the level of support this forum's users had shown towards me, who is just a mere Newcastle United soccer and Detroit Lion football (American football actually) fan, who also care enough to read the front covers of newspapers and reflect onto them. So I give no facts. I give opinions. And they can be refuted. But what I ask for is, since you know I am a Singaporean and not an American, please ---

And we are a forum. Let us be more tolerant of our views, because we may not be living in the right planet but we can always adapt together.

the country?
the people living in it?
the people with governmet positions?

Put it simply, the reason would be the people with government positions, because the people, whom I assume are less knowledgeable than those in positions in power, are more often than not be subject to the abuse of those with government positions.

i guess its easy to spend when you dont have to pay for it

Yes. Applies to me (a foreigner) and to the top officials in America equally.

kxmode, I just want to say it's great to see a fellow conservative on these boards. I gave up on Wrongplanet years ago because the liberals that have the run of this place are the kinds of liberal wackos that normal liberal wackos wish would shut up. Basically, this place is the left-wing equivalent of Stormfront.

Of course, you'll be decried as a racist and an "typical ignorant amurrikan" if you point out that this...

I also believe that bribing doesn't work. Remember the smiling assassin who goes to a camp with VIP-like treatment and then do some suicide bombing thing to bomb a whole camp? If one is really determined to root out American presence because he is misguided by some enemies of the state, we cannot help it don't we? Let us just be what we were before World War I, try not to harass the other countries and just concentrate on reforming the whole country to make it work better, and to re-pay all national debts, at least for the next decade...

I do not know your ideology, but the idea of asking everyone ideas on how to balance the budget in the United States settings, as I thought, is good. Never did I know that I had stepped on landmines.

Because I admit I had not done prior research on the topic when I first replied on this thread. All I thought was, since America's budget is so high, there must be some structural problems. So I thought it must be national debt (as the Greek debacle is still fresh in my mind). What will cause Americans to over-spend? I thought that the average American is still relatively thrifty (hence I did not mention sustainable living or living within personal means, because it's hard for the rich to not live excessively and given any chances, the poor would want to live it up like the rich in any given capitalist society with a lot of goods traded at the free market). So I attributed to just governmental spending, and its excessiveness.

As you know, the United States runs at a deficit in periods of aftermaths of military expansion. Military expenditures as a proportion has soared since the Korean War, pushing tax rates to almost 80% before the Reagan era (from what I heard). Then America cut its top-tier tax rates gradually, but Reagan did spend on the Star Wars project (Strategic Defense Initiative) and hence incurred larger deficits than before, forcing Bush to raise taxes (and going back to his promise of not cutting taxes) and step down.

Only when Clinton decided to focus more on healthcare reforms, which did not pan out, that they also lost control of Congress. The Republicans elected in 1994 did agree, at the same time, to cut spending --- and added with relative stability, the United States enjoyed at least four years of balanced budgets. Due to the War of Terror, the budgets turned into deficits.

Regarding the comment 'Sane people don't make suggestions like telling the US to "cut their military expenditures" especially in a post 9/11 world', now, as it is apparent that the War of Terror is almost unwinnable as it is hard to win against non-state factors without the people's support to eradicate the radicals. So regardless of whether I am sane or not, I think let us just take a look onto a solution for world peace in the post 9/11 world. I think we should really look to solve the root of the problem for terrorism --- that is, too much and too oppressive levels of control on the people in the Middle East, Eastern Europe and even Asian strongholds like South Korea and so on. Cutting military spending will not only reduce tensions between these places and the United States (though leaving other regional powers to rise, but at least this leaves United States with more speaces for efforts to work on the Americas) but will also reduce budget deficits, maybe even balancing them and repaying America's debts!

But if America feels that global presence is needed, why not just give money to the United Nations that they need, and demand more control? I am sure they want the money to solve their debts too. And this really shows United States' standing as the real leader throughout the world isn't it.

It is also ok if you overlooked my point of liberalizing healthcare, so that with the absence of strifling regulations, other pharmaceutical companies from overseas can cheaply make medicines for the good of the Americans.

I also note that you want effective actions to be taken. Sure, since you are educated, you know you are living in a democracy and you can meet your Congressman and talk the matter with him or her. If this does not work, join a political organization in involve in their activities so that you can stand up for your rights.

I am not sounding as if anyone else is an idiot or whatsoever, but I just hope that I had done my part and gave you a guideline, step-by-step, on how to achieve action for us.

If things do not work, just ask the other people, anyone on the street --- we are not satisfied with the government, what can we do to help reduce our government's expenditure --- and so on.

I do not believe that the United States, which had been a great country since 1776, will ever fade into oblivion.

And personal opinions:

"Actually the American symbol is a Bald Eagle. Most Americans know this. Your "logo" is from the Detroit Lions.

Try again."

"That's funny because lions aren't native to the United States. "The American symbol of losing"? That's rich. Here's a fact. There are no symbols in the United States for losing because we don't lose. People know this that's why they hate the US.

This thread has clearly gone off the rails. If no one else is going to offer anything of actual substance outside the insane "lower your military expenditures" advice then I'm officially done with this topic."

Ok, the United States don't lose in the areas they choose to excel in, no? How can you explain them not getting gold in basketball in Athens Olympics and baseball for the last few Olympics? Let us say American football is the national pastime. But look at Northern California, for example. There had been no new football stadiums, even privately-funded ones. If even in sports, things do not work, then how do you expect things in other more important areas (like finance) to work as well?

And did I mention 'liberalize and deregulate the economy'?

I sense a sense of rejection in this forum. I don't know why, I feel that the OP may had setbacks in your music, media and web designing career. Because every line I wrote, no matter how mild I wanted it to be or how persuasive I try to be, they are rejected defensively. I can feel you, because I also experienced some upheavals in my life.

More defensive evidence, in my opinion, just a contradiction of 'xenophobia' and 'immigrant', and 'rights' versus 'responsibilities'...

"Xenophobia? Call it pride. Call it whatever you want. But I love the United States. And stupidity? I'm a educated, smart, second generation immigrant. I think I have the right to say what I want."

So in my opinion, may I send your condolences to you as you seem to be really scared that your livelihood seemed to be robbed away by overseas immigrants? I know I am not robbing you though.

These are "cures" for a non-existent problem. USA has had deficits almost every year of its existence and has been in debt since 1840... These "cures", these bloodletting and leeches "cures" will destroy the United States totally. So it's just suicide for the sake of suicide.

Now, the USA has taken on greater levels of debt than ever when it took over the toxic waste generated by the financial racket. USA should thus seize these institutions and this should solve that problem. Seize these things without compensation and those responsible for the crisis should end up in stir. Problem solved.

A few home thoughts:

1) Make it clear whether you are talking about the US Government or the United States in toto

The US government's fiscal performance is only a portion of the total United States economic activity. The real danger sign is not the federal government's fiscal deficit, but rather the United States' current account deficit. It really doesn't matter if your Government goes bankrupt if the money that it owes is owed entirely to the economy that it regulates. As meansured against GDP, the US government deficit not particularly alarming.

However, it matters greatly if your domestic economy owes more money to offshore interests than it can produce. At the moment the United States' current account deficit is in the range of about 7% of GDP. For the time being, the accumulated defict is being off set by the growth in value of US assets held offshore, but that is not a sustainable proposition.

2) It is offshore investors who finance the US current account deficit. We have a role to play in your domestic economy because we own a part of it. We certainly can't vote--but if your public policy does not favour our economic interests, then we are most certainly in a position to sell your debt. If the PRC and Taiwan were to do that wholesale, the value of the US dollar would crash farther than it has, completely destroying the sustainability of your trade.

3) Gold standards are destructive to economic growth in a global economy. Currency is merely an arbitrary measure of value. If a television costs $500, or 1 oz of gold, it doesn't matter--it is still an exchange of one asset for another. But, a currency backed by a real asset cannot grow more valuable than the asset that backs it. If there is only $100bn in gold in the US Treasury, then there can only be $100bn in circulation. With a money supply that tight, there is only one possible outcome: hyperinflation, since a low supply of currency will create an ever increasing demand.

Since Bretton Woods, the means of controlling the money supply has been through monetary policy, primarily the central bank system. As the economy grows, a central bank releases more currency, so that the ratio of the size of the economy to the money supply remains relatively constant.

4) Easy credit. While defaults on subprime mortgages and the resulting trade in derivative interests are major causae causanes of the present economic crisis, it should also be remembered that easy credit is also the means by which much of the United States' economic growth has been fuelled during the past 25-30 years. While it is easy to demonize financial institutions for greed, it is that greed that has kept people's pension plans and 401k's fat.

That's not to say that easy credit should continue unregulated. Only one G8 country has emerged from this crisis with no bank failures: Canada. Our Government has sat hard on our domestic banks, preventing them from moving into other financial sectors like insurance and preventing them from merging. As a result, our banks' exposure to the credit collapse has been limited to their role in underwriting asset backed commercial paper (like US subprime mortgage derivatives). While we've been hurt, we've emerged in a much stronger position, thanks in large part to our more robust regulatory scheme for the financial sector.

Taken together, I venture the proposition that further liberalization and deregulation of your economy (and more importantly, your financial sector) is not a recipe for success.

This needs to happen in an eviroment in which you develop a culture of accountability that looks farther ahead than the next two-year election cycle, or the next quarterly income statement to shareholders. Sustainable economic growth must be based on real GDP growth, rather than a quick turnaround on the derivatives market.

Great reply visagrunt, and a lot of think about. Thanks!

Here's AngelRho's Rhoad to personal economic recovery:

#1: Close your checking account, cut up all your debit and credit cards
#2: Open a savings account, place any excess money you get there (like tax refunds, etc.)
#3: Cash your paychecks, pay bills in cash
#4: Eliminate all debt, cut luxuries if you need to.
#5: Never hesitate to lend money or charge fees for services; make time to work independently. Get everything in writing. If things are going well for you, go easy on your clients. Call 'em in when things get tight. They don't want to pay? Small claims court, baby!

That's how my family of 4 makes it on less than combined $25,000/yr. And no, we no longer accept any kind of government welfare (we did WIC for 2 years when we realized we were going out to eat at least twice a week. Time to stop living on handouts).

Sharing possessions is amazing, too. We passed along baby clothes for the last 18 months (a boy and a girl) until we got to a point that nobody wanted our old stuff (which was GIVEN to us to begin with). We're thinking about donating it, as we don't feel Ebay would really be the morally right thing to do.

I won't get into a long diatribe on this, but if poor, ignorant people like my wife and I can figure this stuff out and live on MINIMUM amount of income, why can't the government figure out the same and even manage to CUT spending and taxes?