Embracing your "Doctor Who", or Are we Timelords?

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Orwell
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24 May 2010, 7:02 pm

Arachne wrote:
I know my ideas a little fanciful, but is it sound logic?

No, it is not. We periodically get new members here claiming that autism is somehow the next evolutionary stage of humans, or that we are aliens, or that we are in some manner fundamentally distinct from (and implicitly superior to) the rest of humanity. Such notions have been thoroughly debunked many times before.

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Here to learn

If you are interested in evolution, you would need to start with basic biology. Campbell/Reece "Biology" is the standard introductory text, and has excellent coverage on evolution. The 7th edition is still reasonably up to date and can probably be obtained pretty cheaply used (they are currently on the 9th edition). After that, a good genetics text (I read "Genetics," by Pierce) would lay further groundwork before going to a dedicated book on evolution. Futuyma's evolution text is highly regarded in that field.


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Awesomelyglorious
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24 May 2010, 7:05 pm

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I agree about the longer lifespans, not so much about the happiness., which I firmly believe can affect the survivability of the species for sure!


Well, I think that the matter of happiness is clearly perceived with this scatterplot.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/200 ... RAPHIC.jpg

There is clearly a correlation between GDP per capita and happiness.

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So we've adapted ourself to a closed loop system where if we were to lose the social construct of "modern society" we'd be fuXked


Well, in some sense yes, but more in the same sense that you might be unhappy if you lost internet connection for an extended period of time.



Arachne
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24 May 2010, 7:10 pm

mgran wrote:
Arachne wrote:
I also think that we as a species are HIGHLY susceptible to environmental adaptive changes.
we have developed quite rapidly compared to other species, it is our adaptability that has ensured our survival up to this point.

So is AS an adaptation, and not a disorder?

Whew.... :?

Hi Arachne,
I agree with above posters, and perhaps go further than them by suggesting the following:

Your initial post actually suggests sentience on the part of nature somehow dictating evolution.
"DNA now has the opportunity to express itself"...

DNA does not express itself. It is coded information. Now, theists might suggest that the fact that DNA is coded implies a master code maker creating the code, but whatever you may believe, DNA itself is not expressing itself, because strings of DNA are not sentient.

You later say "Maybe this is mother natures way of Forcing us to mature in a way that works for her."

While you may concievably be using "mother nature" as a metaphor, the previous sentence does rather imply the notion that "Mother Nature" is some sort of deity that controls the fate of human kind. Why not just say "Gaia" instead of "Mother Nature", or "God," or "Goddess", or even "aliens from outer space"?

In other words, you need to sit and think about whether you are speaking as a scientist, or a religionist. I do know the two are not necessarily exclusive, but messed up as your thoughts are on this, it might help you to decide what is science in your "theory" and what is religion.

For the record, I'm a "religionist", with some scientific training, but have the sense not to claim any expertise on "scientific" matters, since linguistics is my main thing.


Thank you for helping to re-frame my thoughts a bit, Maybe I am fence-sitting on this a little.

I would consider myself a "Stand Up Philosopher", just kidding, I'm a parrot, and a people watcher.
and I have been delving into the nature of existence and my fascination with both dimensional physics and psychoanalysis and sustainable living are crossing paths on too many levels to not freak me out a little.

I do have the personal belief that the abundance of interacting sentient and non sentient life forms on this planet interact on a subtle level to influence the total outcome of our collective consciousness, The whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

So that is the perspective I'm taking on the nature of mankinds role in the "BIG PICTURE".

So I suppose that would skew me to factor in the long term application of a "social system" or more accurately a "belief system" for my idea to be sound.

I still thinks it raises interesting questions about the nature of our abilities. the two previous posters contradicted their arguments by saying that reproduction would predominate the selection process for evolutionary adaptation, and then stated we don't get laid a lot. (just kidding)

I appreciate the feedback, I hope I don't sound like an A-hole.



mgran
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24 May 2010, 7:21 pm

You don't sound like an A hole, more like a thinker.

I'm really tired, and have to go to bed now, or I'd probably talk all night to you, but I'll check in here tomorrow to see where you're up to, and hopefully have some more stuff to chat to you about.

Goodnight!



Arachne
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24 May 2010, 7:41 pm

mgran wrote:
You don't sound like an A hole, more like a thinker.

I'm really tired, and have to go to bed now, or I'd probably talk all night to you, but I'll check in here tomorrow to see where you're up to, and hopefully have some more stuff to chat to you about.

Goodnight!


I just recently met someone who is incredibly similar in their "abilities" as me, and realized that maybe I would get more enjoyment out of being able to communicate on "our Level"

I was getting tired of pissing everyone in my life off with my questions and came to the conclusion that other aspies might satisfy my need to "bounce ideas" better than anybody
,and I should have done this a long time ago.

There's some comfort in being different just like everybody else. If ya know what I mean.
I still think this is a valid debate Especially if you throw intentional eugenics into the mix.
that's one of those sci-fi/religious crossovers. and I think I'm still sitting on the fence a bit.
:)
Sweet Dreams.



Orwell
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24 May 2010, 8:35 pm

Arachne wrote:
I have been delving into the nature of existence and my fascination with both dimensional physics and psychoanalysis and sustainable living are crossing paths on too many levels to not freak me out a little.

I'm not sure what you mean by dimensional physics, "sustainable" living merely delays the inevitable, and psychoanalysis was soundly rejected by educated people before either of us were born.

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the two previous posters contradicted their arguments by saying that reproduction would predominate the selection process for evolutionary adaptation, and then stated we don't get laid a lot. (just kidding)

I'm afraid I don't see the contradiction. Evolution (or more specifically natural selection) depends on reproductive success, and autistics commonly have limited reproductive success. Ergo, autism is not selected for.


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Arachne
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24 May 2010, 9:43 pm

Orwell wrote:
Arachne wrote:
I have been delving into the nature of existence and my fascination with both dimensional physics and psychoanalysis and sustainable living are crossing paths on too many levels to not freak me out a little.

I'm not sure what you mean by dimensional physics, "sustainable" living merely delays the inevitable, and psychoanalysis was soundly rejected by educated people before either of us were born.

Sorry Orwell my sloppy use of possibly incorrect terminology
those were generalized statements to change the nature of the conversation.
By dimensional physics I mean I am keenly interested in string and M theory, multiple universe, etc. My personal life is drifting towards the sustainable living movement, and by Psycho-Analasis I'm self describing my personal habit of over analyzing ALL the people in my environment to the Nth degree, A friend of mine calls me a "profiler" I was in Law Enforcement for some of my life and was very good at it, I just couldn't deal with all the crap.
My friends can get quite annoyed at my habit of over-analyzing them, especially if I'm right more than half the time. lol
Innately I'm an obsessive problem solver, and fascinated by interconnectivity especially in social systems. and this one has me stuck, I was coming to this forum because I assumed that of anybody, the collective expertise of a whole community of AS and "outside the Box" thinkers would help me to fine tune some of my thought processes.

I really do appreciate everyones patience and I'm trying not to test it.

I understand how that could be confusing.
You appear to be a stickler, what is your Super power if I might ask?
(I hate it when people ask me what is my tick, I prefer super power, it's more um, empowering)

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the two previous posters contradicted their arguments by saying that reproduction would predominate the selection process for evolutionary adaptation, and then stated we don't get laid a lot. (just kidding)

I'm afraid I don't see the contradiction. Evolution (or more specifically natural selection) depends on reproductive success, and autistics commonly have limited reproductive success. Ergo, autism is not selected for.


And this was a joke,

and both have exceeded the parameters of my original post, I'm wondering if I should change the string at this point for a more "Religious" dialog, or should I keep beating this dead horse.



Orwell
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24 May 2010, 10:36 pm

Arachne wrote:
By dimensional physics I mean I am keenly interested in string and M theory, multiple universe, etc.

Aren't string theory and m-theory the same thing? I don't really know any physics, so I'll leave that alone.

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I'm an obsessive problem solver, and fascinated by interconnectivity especially in social systems. and this one has me stuck, I was coming to this forum because I assumed that of anybody, the collective expertise of a whole community of AS and "outside the Box" thinkers would help me to fine tune some of my thought processes.

One of the major functions of the human brain is to search for patterns, and some evidence suggests that autistics are more adept at finding patterns than other people. However, caution must always be taken to ensure that the patterns you uncover actually exist—this failure to check is what leads to conspiracy theorists' contorted beliefs.

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You appear to be a stickler, what is your Super power if I might ask?
(I hate it when people ask me what is my tick, I prefer super power, it's more um, empowering)

Super power? If you mean special interest, I like biology (especially evolutionary biology) as well as math, history, politics, and some small areas of philosophy and theology. Also chess is a big obsession of mine.

Your observation is correct though, I am often pedantic, sometimes unnecessarily so.

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And this was a joke,

Ah, my impaired sense of humor at work once again.

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should I keep beating this dead horse.

That would certainly be kinder than beating a live horse, who can still feel pain.


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Arachne
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24 May 2010, 10:48 pm

"That would certainly be kinder than beating a live horse, who can still feel pain."

I don't honestly know if you are attempting humor, if you are quoting the marx brothers, or if you are making a logical observation.

either way, that was HILARIOUS, you should use that joke more.
And, I'm stealing it.
:lol: