How Would You Amend the Constitution of the United States?

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waltur
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18 Jun 2010, 4:06 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

The trait looked for in a good sniper is not a disregard for human life but calmness;

It requires a psychopath to remain calm while shooting a man in cold blood. This is not "strength of character." It is disregard for the value of human life.

I suppose the U.S. Armed Forces aren't demonized enough? You might make an excellent journalist.

It's not a demonetization; it is a fact of life. Like I said: I know people who have made it as snipers. I've never given them sh** for it because I understand the level of stresses that they have to endure and I'm not going to judge them for something that I have no clue what they've done (not to mention it's rarely their call).

No, you're right, it's not a demonetization but rather it is a demonization. The type of sniper I was initially referring to is what you, or walthur, called a marksman. But I am the kind of person who has walked on my own for 7 hours just to get to work for the next 14 hours, get a ride back home and start over again the next day. I know how to wait patiently and I value accuracy. As a soldier you're not supposed to question orders anyway, so that is not unique to being a sniper.

i think the idea that the U.S. armed forces are demonized is a tough subject. war is war. catastrophic social interaction on an international level. a mutual (sometimes) agreement to engage in mutual destruction in the hopes that our enemies will fail before we do. war has always been this way. to say that it is required of a professional killer to think like, behave like, and start with the worldview of a professional killer is not to "demonize" the killer. i think "damaged" is a bad way to characterize what we're talking about. an emotionally unstable soldier is a liability in most situations.

that sounds like a really awesome walk, btw. i love a good long walk that you can't get out of and keeps switching you back and forth from hot to cold.

crappy about the long work day at crappy jobs, though. i hope your next job is better for you.

Dox47
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18 Jun 2010, 4:40 pm

Orwell wrote:

It requires a psychopath to remain calm while shooting a man in cold blood. This is not "strength of character." It is disregard for the value of human life.

I know you hate soldiers Orwell, it's been a common theme of your postings here, and your normal intellect and reasoning skills seem to go on vacation when the subject of them comes up. I see it as a form of cognitive dissonance, you hold a stereotype of military people because of your personal experience that you can't relinquish intellectually because of your emotional reaction so you cling to a belief that you wouldn't normally support, in this case a broad generalization about a group of people.

War is a nasty business however it's conducted, and to claim the man who fights it with highly discriminant aimed rifle fire is somehow a "psychopath" because he goes about his job in a calm and collected way is beyond asinine. Who are you to pass such judgment?

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just_ben
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18 Jun 2010, 5:16 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Orwell wrote:

It requires a psychopath to remain calm while shooting a man in cold blood. This is not "strength of character." It is disregard for the value of human life.

I'm with Dox47 on this one.

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ruveyn
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18 Jun 2010, 6:22 pm

Orwell wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

The trait looked for in a good sniper is not a disregard for human life but calmness;

It requires a psychopath to remain calm while shooting a man in cold blood. This is not "strength of character." It is disregard for the value of human life.

It was "psychopaths" who saved me from becoming a cake of soap on some Nazis bathtub.l;

ruveyn

electric_sheep
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18 Jun 2010, 6:40 pm

I'm not sure how this turned into a thread about sniping and details about taxation (though the latter is rooted in taxation in the constitution). But...back to the constitution...

I'd eliminate the need for a census. It is a very inaccurate and costly process that would be better served by statistical approximation and sampling. If one is concerned about gerrymandering of districts, then perhaps set the lines more in stone FOR FEDERAL CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS using the same amendment.

The Federal thing was in all-caps because I still feel states should have control over their own legislative districts and how they should be drawn.

As for taxation: what the constitution actually says on taxation mostly regards Congress's authority to tax. This scares me less than the alternatives (no tax = no stable method of funding basic services and armed forces, experimenting with untested taxation methods in America = possible bad surprises).

techstepgenr8tion
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18 Jun 2010, 6:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

The trait looked for in a good sniper is not a disregard for human life but calmness;

It requires a psychopath to remain calm while shooting a man in cold blood. This is not "strength of character." It is disregard for the value of human life.

It was "psychopaths" who saved me from becoming a cake of soap on some Nazis bathtub.l;

ruveyn

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Wisguy
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18 Jun 2010, 7:09 pm

Orwell wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

The trait looked for in a good sniper is not a disregard for human life but calmness;

It requires a psychopath to remain calm while shooting a man in cold blood. This is not "strength of character." It is disregard for the value of human life.

Killing an enemy soldier in fair battle is not 'in cold blood'. In fact, being shadowed by a good sniper will drive a military unit BATTY.

That said, I would:

-Repeal Amendment 16 (income tax).
-Require balanced federal budgets (except for periods of true emergency, such as a declared war)
-Strengthen the 14th Amendment by specifically outlawing racial and ethnic preferences between citizens by governments at any level.
-Allow line-item and amendatory vetoes by the President (a power that the vast majority of state governors enjoy).
-Allow naturalized citizens to be eligible for President and Vice-President (but *NOT* be allowed to hold any 'dual' citizenships. Right now, I know of two state governors who are naturalized citizens).

OTOH, I fully disagree with the idea of a direct popular election for President/Vice-President - One, it would really cement the term 'flyover country' into the heartland as campaigns would completely ignore it in favor of the more major markets and Two, a single word - "RECOUNT".

Mike

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19 Jun 2010, 7:07 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

I suppose the U.S. Armed Forces aren't demonized enough? You might make an excellent journalist.

Oh please. The media (and apparently everyone else) worship soldiers as demi-gods. I am not interested in glorifying such a brutal undertaking. There are, unfortunately, reasons why we need to have a military, and someone has to serve in it, but killing is not an honourable or glorious pursuit. Bringing pain and death upon people you have never met (many of whom are innocent civilians) is not something a moral person can do without suffering emotional distress themselves.

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iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2010, 7:21 pm

I would Amend the Constitution to turn the United States of America into an Imperial War Machine the likes of which this world has never seen, just to spurn those morons who think we already are....

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19 Jun 2010, 7:24 pm

Dox47 wrote:

I don't "hate" soldiers. Hating someone you have never met is irrational. I don't even hate the soldiers that I have met, even if I am not particularly fond of all of them. I certainly do not wish any harm upon our soldiers (or those of any other country). Unlike the war-mongers and militaristic buffoons of the right-wing in general and the neo-conservative movement in particular, I (generally speaking) oppose putting our soldiers in harm's way. So tell me, who "hates" our soldiers? One who wishes to avoid war, or one who is fine with leaving our troops in a hostile land for a decade to fight a hopeless battle against guerrillas?

I will say that in general I have little respect for military service as a profession. This is because soldiers produce nothing; no military action ever produces anything. The sole purpose of military, and of soldiers, is to destroy and kill. Sometimes we have to use the military to protect ourselves or our allies, but let's not lie to ourselves, it is a horrible thing. On that there can be no disagreement. The military is, at best, a deeply unfortunate necessity.

Quote:

War is a nasty business however it's conducted, and to claim the man who fights it with highly discriminant aimed rifle fire is somehow a "psychopath" because he goes about his job in a calm and collected way is beyond asinine. Who are you to pass such judgment?

Dox, you accused me of cognitive dissonance. Drop the euphemistic BS. Do not refer to killing as "his job."

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iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2010, 7:28 pm

Orwell wrote:

I will say that in general I have little respect for military service as a profession. This is because soldiers produce nothing; no military action ever produces anything.

Are you speaking based on modern wars or on historical wars? Wars in the past had soldiers plundering the enemies, and that is about as productive as mining except the products are already finished.

Tequila
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19 Jun 2010, 7:28 pm

It's not really fair for me to comment as I'm not an American citizen.

Orwell
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19 Jun 2010, 7:36 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Are you speaking based on modern wars or on historical wars? Wars in the past had soldiers plundering the enemies, and that is about as productive as mining except the products are already finished.

War is destructive. Even the "plundering" you propose diminishes the total wealth, and only slightly enriches the plunderers at fatal expense to the plundered. It is not Pareto efficient, or even Kaldor-Hicks efficient. Not even close.

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iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2010, 7:37 pm

Orwell wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Are you speaking based on modern wars or on historical wars? Wars in the past had soldiers plundering the enemies, and that is about as productive as mining except the products are already finished.

Fine, then conquer the enemies and tax them.

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19 Jun 2010, 7:43 pm

Since when are occupations cheap?

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iamnotaparakeet
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19 Jun 2010, 7:47 pm

Orwell wrote:

Since when are occupations cheap?

IDK, but it was feasible for the Romans via taxation. Also, whenever rebellions began, then the Romans unleashed legions upon the rebels until they wiped them out.

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