Gun "control" - to protect or disarm the citizens?

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And that is why you haven't thought about it. You should never have a Columbine OR a Dachau!! ! You should never have to choose!! ! There should be another way! Comparing the Columbine massacre to the methods of Auschwitz is imbecilic. Worse, it is apathetic! But you, obviously, have chosen to allow disaffected people to have guns which they may turn to when they feel the world is against them, and use them to lash out at the world, with disastrous results.

I thought I wasn't going to post here in this topic again, but I saw the end of your post, which is an incredibly exaggerated comparison. Did all the Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies and so on in the Holocaust die of gunshot wounds? Many of those just killed in the camps, rather than the ovens, or by the einsatzgruppen killing squads were. Many were also gassed, or starved, or died of disease. It is not the gun ownership that has to change per se, but people's attitudes towards guns. Not only that, but people's (and the government's) attitude towards anything remotely different. Inequality will never go away, but it CAN be reduced!! !

Australia and much of Western Europe's chances of becoming a dictatorship are pretty low compared to the United States "PATRIOT Act" of America. I see the signs in Australia from anti-terror laws, but have we got them as severe as in the USA? And can Australia, whom I consider to be the most culturally diverse country in the world (or at least European-settled country), ever sink into dictatorship? Perhaps, but we will fight to the end, and we have means other than guns.

What kind of a person brings a knife to a gunfight?

The loser.

One-dimensional thinking, gotta love it!

There's a world of difference between "should" and "IS" We're trying to keep this discussion in the world of reality, not theory!



We're not "allowing" disaffected people to have guns. We're allowing average citizens to have guns. As I have previously stated, it's practically imposssible to keep gun out of the hands of criminals in the U.S. because we can't keep guns from being smuggled in from Mexico or other illeagal sources.


You're correct, but that's the problem don't you see?? Jews marched willingly to their own deaths because they did't have the will to posses guns and the will to use them.

Would you have us adopt the attitide of those Jews who marched to the death camps without a fight??

Yes! we can reduce inequality through gun ownership!!

I'm not sure what planet you're on, have you seen Britian lately?? It's an Orwellian police-camera state. Most everything you do in public is watched. Is that the world you want??

What do you plan to fight with?? your fingernails??

I think he has thought about it. He is agreeing the supply of guns in the US civilian hands
is increasing the gun relate death in the US. But his point was 200 million (or more)
guns in the hands of civilians means it will be much harder to load whole groups of
people on rail cars. Look at Waco religious cult. One read you could say this is a perfect
reason for banning guns(oh the ATF was infact going there to enforce gun laws). The
other read is the ferderal goverment had a hard time dis-arming the cult(alot dead on
both sides). If it tried to do something on large scale it would be very hard.

Vote Gun License

Obviously there are wackos with criminal backgrounds that shouldn't be able to get their hands on them, but all law abiding citizens should have the right and the ability to protect themselves, period.

I notice you say you live in Australia rather that you are Australian. I think you're one of those whinging pommy bastards although I have to admit there are some tree hugging greenie pinko types here.

Bastards like you were very quick to exploit for political gain the tragedy of the massacre at Port Arthur 1995 as a result of which my Grandfather's 1902 semi-auto Winchester, chambers for 22 longs, not even LR (ie an obsolete but collectible rifle) was condemned to be destroyed, and I am not allowed to own a pump action shotgun, because c*nts like you declared me to be a "public health risk" - yes I have not forgotted nor forgiven c*nts like you.

Until you know what you are talking about (start by looking at http://www.ssaa.org.au/) f*>k off.

For the benefit of you Americans, to get a pistol licence, you have to attend a club 12x in 6 months, get finger printed and treated like a criminal, have police inspect your home, and keep attending club competition shoots at least 6x per year.

Military style firearms were banned about 20 years ago.

Semi autos of all types (22, shotgun, anything) are banned

Pump action shotguns are banned but rifles OK (don't understand that logic, a 12g pump banned but a Remington 30-06 pump is OK????

Licences cost: (Longarm) $240 for 3 years, Duck, quail & Deer permits, $480 for 3 years, club membership (F&GA - required in order to get a licence) $80/year, permits for pest mitigation (shhoting ducks over crops) $70/year.

Cost of ammo? I don't reload shotgun because new ammo is cheap - about A$6/box for target loads. A couple of us buy a pallet at a time. I too relaod centrefire (270, 22-250, 308). If powder became difficul to get, I think you can use cut up pieces of 35mm film (nitrocellulous based) as I heard the afgans do.

Once again, it is like banging one's head against a brick wall. And how dare you criticise me like that, Bazza. I feel for your gun having to be destroyed after Port Arthur. The SSAA has a valid point of view, and more money should be put into mental health to try and prevent such things. However, I do not take kindly to being addressed as a c**t or being told to f*** off. Or being compared to said c**ts who apparently called you a public health risk if you owned a pump-action.

How dare you pricks judge me because of my attitude. How f***ing dare you. This is how both Columbine AND the Holocaust started out, because no-one listened, until it was too late. There were plenty of warning signs with Klebold and Harris. Hitler himself said that if anyone clued into what he was doing earlier and prevented it, the Nazi party wouldn't have grown to what it became. And as for apathetic Jews, look at the fighting in Warsaw! There were uprisings (failed) in the death camps.

So I say again to all of you right-wing (I don't care even if you aren't, I'm not in the mood) nutters:

HOW DARE YOU!

Sorry for the double post. That's why I'm editing it.

God, I am in a bad mood today......

Me too - I could have used less strong language.

Do you really think guns were the cause of Columbine? You don't think a screwed up kid could kill as many or more with a petrol bomb or fertiliser mixed with deisel?

You are trying to control society instead of improving it.

I recall seeing stats somewhere (attributed to FBI) that show violent crime per 100,000 is now less in NYC than London. You need to take your blinkers off and stop looking at gun crime only. Those who criticise NYC zero tolerence policy by saysing all it does is move crime may be right, if it moved to London.

A crim with an iron bar is more likely to kill you than one with a gun. Look at total criminal deaths/violence, not just gun crime. Look at total suicides, not gun related suicide.

Look at crime rates in the USA states with concealed carry law c/w those without.

If you keep your blinkers on, is it because you are trying to distort the facts (because you are) or are you just a f***wit?

Last edited by BazzaMcKenzie on 11 Sep 2006, 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

back-up for the guy carrying a 32

I'll take your word for it. I've become too cyncial towards the world. I mean, whatever happened to anarchy? As in voluntary order rather than a chaotic mess. But no. As long as there are people, and as long as there are differences, there will be conflict. I mean, this thread's a damn good example.

Maybe I should live in a cave, blind and deafen myself and become a hermit.

But how can one improve society? Have you ever heard of the principle (my own) of NIABEM? In big words, it means that society can never improve completely, and is more likely to go down the crapper every day. Because even if you've educated the whole world, or improved it, some idiots come along and screw it up. NIABEM is an acronym for the basis of such cynicism: New Idiots Are Born Every Minute.

Ah f*** this, I know I shouldn't be political at all. Why should I care about said politics? It'll go to pot sooner or later.

This is probably a bad time for me to post. I've come off me antidepressants (citalopram) and have gotten a cat. I have become more stroppy and temperamental by the day. I'm also getting to thinking, am I so damn introspective and hard on myself (I am, believe me) because I worry about what others think of me? Well, no more! I shouldn't care about the US and it's gun laws. I don't know any Yanks, so let them shoot each other to bits.

And I am soory if my remarks offended you earlier Bazza, and I'm sorry for the loss of your gun, as it obviously had sentimental value. But do not call me any names. I have been called names all my life, and I thought it was over when the bully got banned. Then when I graduated from high school. Then when I left my dad. Then when I left the VGMix forum. Do not make this another "then when", please. I do not provoke deliberately, I am perhaps a bit single-minded.



V, hahahahaha. But he got shot. Hahahaha.

Excuse my fit of insanity, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

I'm sorry I "shot first and asked questions later" - I really am.

Sorry I called you names - I really am.

After Hoddle St and then even more so after Pt Arthur, some people look at you as if you are some sort of psycho killer if you enjoy shooting. I usually am polite and restrained, but here I am not. You have a right to your opinion, even if its wrong.

Lets all have a group hug (no, not really)

PS - usually enjoy your posts

Look that's okay, I also realise about Hoddle St. Forgot about that. And thanks. I'm sorry I acted like an arse to you.

And you really made my day, saying you usually enjoyed my posts. Maybe I got a bit too controlling, a hangover from my upbringing with my dad. I'll post in "The Haven" later, but my participation in this thread is probably over, and I wish luck to anyone who can seriously debate this topic, and hopefully without any comparisons between Columbine and the Holocaust.

Exit, stage right...

Just remember, posting in here you are criticising other aspies obsessions.

You're going to get a reaction.

Cheers

(I'm in Melbourne)

I have heard English teachers tell there students no papers on Abortion or Gun Control
because writers get to emotional about it. I think she is right.