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Ancient Astronaut Theory.

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Khan_Sama
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28 Aug 2010, 8:05 am

auntblabby wrote:
the masons consider it secret information reserved for 30th degree members, that 75,000 years ago earth was visited by a super-advanced race of ETs who live on a planet with an extreme eccentric orbit of 3600 years duration. anyways, these ETs messed with early proto-human's genetic code to accelerate their evolution to the humanity we know now, and continue to influence our affairs. decades ago, i read this in a book about how a mason named gull [who was the british royal physician to the queen] was really jack the ripper. of course there is no practical way to conclusively prove or disprove these "chariots of the gods"-type things, unless they come back and chat with the UN or something like that.


My family has a three generation history of Freemasonry, and this is the first time I have come across such information. Can you point me to your sources please? As far as I know, the Scottish rite is merely honorary and nothing more.

I have, on the other hand, heard about 'planet Nibiru' from David Icke (who himself got the info from other conspiracy theorists), and how its inhabitants slowly infiltrated Earth's royal and financial bloodlines, ultimately creating secret societies such as the Freemasons and the Illuminati. But then again, he also claims that they are all shape-shifting Reptillian humanoids who thrive on human blood. I find this incredibly dubious considering I come from a high-ranking noble bloodline with links to Freemasonry.



ruveyn
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28 Aug 2010, 8:17 am

John_Browning wrote:
4th dynasty Egypt didn't have the necessary technology or math skills (that we know about) to build the pyramids, but there is nothing exotic about the materials used that could prove aliens had anything to do with it. The same can be said about other ancient sites.


The pyramids could be built using crude mathematics (and Egyptian mathematics was crude). What it required was muscles, a supply of stone and a genius in managing lots of manual labor over extended periods of time. The Egyptians were logistical geniuses. Without advanced mathematics (they did not even prove theorems) and a very good grasp of task organization they were able to erect the largest structures the world had seen until very modern times.

To put a point on it, the Egyptians had all of the math and engineering skills needed for the task. They had the lever, the wheel and the inclined plane, the basic machines.

ruveyn



Janissy
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28 Aug 2010, 9:06 am

ruveyn wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
4th dynasty Egypt didn't have the necessary technology or math skills (that we know about) to build the pyramids, but there is nothing exotic about the materials used that could prove aliens had anything to do with it. The same can be said about other ancient sites.


The pyramids could be built using crude mathematics (and Egyptian mathematics was crude). What it required was muscles, a supply of stone and a genius in managing lots of manual labor over extended periods of time. The Egyptians were logistical geniuses. Without advanced mathematics (they did not even prove theorems) and a very good grasp of task organization they were able to erect the largest structures the world had seen until very modern times.

To put a point on it, the Egyptians had all of the math and engineering skills needed for the task. They had the lever, the wheel and the inclined plane, the basic machines.

ruveyn


That genius in managing lots of manual labor over extended periods of time is pretty well documented in the Old Testament, further detracting from the alien astronaut theory.

In this modern age of using construction machinery rather than slavery to build large structures, I think we've lost sight of just how much can be done by multiple people who are forced to spend every waking minute of their lives doing hard manual labor on one project.



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29 Aug 2010, 9:28 am

Khan_Sama wrote:
My family has a three generation history of Freemasonry, and this is the first time I have come across such information. Can you point me to your sources please? As far as I know, the Scottish rite is merely honorary and nothing more. .


sorry, no insult intended, i was merely remembering a book i read back in the early 80s about [supposedly] who really committed the atrocities attributed heretofore to jack the ripper. the book delved a bit into masonic things because the person the book said was really the ripper [a guy named gull who was the queen's physician] was a 33rd degree mason, and the author went off on a tangent about what the senior masons supposedly believe about the origins of modern man. for the life of me i can't remember the name of the book.



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29 Aug 2010, 10:08 am

The masons are a bunch of loonies, they may believe in whatever they please.

Anyway, this theory is as likely as others. It may actually be more likely due to the very strange things that can be found archaeologically. But besides those FREAK STRANGE THINGS, there is not really clear unambiguous evidence of this theory. However, what is clear is that there are traces that something does not fit (ie thousand years old gold plane models that can actually fly when reconstructed with wood), but there is nothing that confirms the theory. So, let's just say that we have no reason to think it is true, but we have no reason to think it is false either.


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29 Aug 2010, 10:12 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
The masons are a bunch of loonies, they may believe in whatever they please.

Anyway, this theory is as likely as others. It may actually be more likely due to the very strange things that can be found archaeologically. But besides those FREAK STRANGE THINGS, there is not really clear unambiguous evidence of this theory. However, what is clear is that there are traces that something does not fit (ie thousand years old gold plane models that can actually fly when reconstructed with wood), but there is nothing that confirms the theory. So, let's just say that we have no reason to think it is true, but we have no reason to think it is false either.


I commend you on your logic. The Stonehenge was definately built for solar event, but what is the purpose of the others wonders?


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John_Browning
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29 Aug 2010, 10:25 am

ruveyn wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
4th dynasty Egypt didn't have the necessary technology or math skills (that we know about) to build the pyramids, but there is nothing exotic about the materials used that could prove aliens had anything to do with it. The same can be said about other ancient sites.


The pyramids could be built using crude mathematics (and Egyptian mathematics was crude). What it required was muscles, a supply of stone and a genius in managing lots of manual labor over extended periods of time. The Egyptians were logistical geniuses. Without advanced mathematics (they did not even prove theorems) and a very good grasp of task organization they were able to erect the largest structures the world had seen until very modern times.

To put a point on it, the Egyptians had all of the math and engineering skills needed for the task. They had the lever, the wheel and the inclined plane, the basic machines.

ruveyn

What the Egyptians lacked was the metallurgy to effectively cut the stone. They would have gone through copper tools like crazy and those tools wouldn't get much done before breaking or getting worn out.


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29 Aug 2010, 10:35 am

John_Browning wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
4th dynasty Egypt didn't have the necessary technology or math skills (that we know about) to build the pyramids, but there is nothing exotic about the materials used that could prove aliens had anything to do with it. The same can be said about other ancient sites.


The pyramids could be built using crude mathematics (and Egyptian mathematics was crude). What it required was muscles, a supply of stone and a genius in managing lots of manual labor over extended periods of time. The Egyptians were logistical geniuses. Without advanced mathematics (they did not even prove theorems) and a very good grasp of task organization they were able to erect the largest structures the world had seen until very modern times.

To put a point on it, the Egyptians had all of the math and engineering skills needed for the task. They had the lever, the wheel and the inclined plane, the basic machines.

ruveyn

What the Egyptians lacked was the metallurgy to effectively cut the stone. They would have gone through copper tools like crazy and those tools wouldn't get much done before breaking or getting worn out.


The (non-astronaut) theory is that they did in fact use copper chisels. That these would break and wear out does not make alien intervention a more likely theory. Occam's Razor, people! In the face of frequently broken tools, you merely need a team of workers whose job it is to go round the worksite collecting broken/worn tools and repairing them. That's very labor intensive but they had plenty of labor.



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29 Aug 2010, 11:08 am

John_Browning wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
4th dynasty Egypt didn't have the necessary technology or math skills (that we know about) to build the pyramids, but there is nothing exotic about the materials used that could prove aliens had anything to do with it. The same can be said about other ancient sites.


The pyramids could be built using crude mathematics (and Egyptian mathematics was crude). What it required was muscles, a supply of stone and a genius in managing lots of manual labor over extended periods of time. The Egyptians were logistical geniuses. Without advanced mathematics (they did not even prove theorems) and a very good grasp of task organization they were able to erect the largest structures the world had seen until very modern times.

To put a point on it, the Egyptians had all of the math and engineering skills needed for the task. They had the lever, the wheel and the inclined plane, the basic machines.

ruveyn

What the Egyptians lacked was the metallurgy to effectively cut the stone. They would have gone through copper tools like crazy and those tools wouldn't get much done before breaking or getting worn out.


Broken bronze(which is harder than copper) tools can be re-smelted into new chisels. And the bulk of the fracturing of the blocks was done with fire and water.


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John_Browning
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29 Aug 2010, 5:03 pm

Janissy wrote:
The (non-astronaut) theory is that they did in fact use copper chisels. That these would break and wear out does not make alien intervention a more likely theory. Occam's Razor, people! In the face of frequently broken tools, you merely need a team of workers whose job it is to go round the worksite collecting broken/worn tools and repairing them. That's very labor intensive but they had plenty of labor.

I never suggested aliens built the pyramids. I said there is a lot we don't know about the technology they used. Copper tools would be painfully slow because they would wear almost as fast as the rock they chipped


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29 Aug 2010, 5:55 pm

spent some time in egypt. you can view the quarries used for limestone and granite construction. climb around in them and you find 3/4 completed obelisks that still have the wooden shims used to break them loose. pyramids built using limestone blocks, with the interior chambers constructed of granite. limestone hardness about 3 to 4 depending on impurities. granite, almost exclusively sio2, about 6.5.

metal tools, we don't need no stinkin' metal tools.



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29 Aug 2010, 6:27 pm

This theory can also explain how hundreds of languages appeared over the world independently. I have a hard time believeing the classic language-development theory.



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29 Aug 2010, 7:19 pm

auntblabby wrote:
sorry, no insult intended, i was merely remembering a book i read back in the early 80s about [supposedly] who really committed the atrocities attributed heretofore to jack the ripper. the book delved a bit into masonic things because the person the book said was really the ripper [a guy named gull who was the queen's physician] was a 33rd degree mason, and the author went off on a tangent about what the senior masons supposedly believe about the origins of modern man. for the life of me i can't remember the name of the book.


Sounds like yet another conspiracy theorist to me.

Also, I must note that the Scottish rite is an official body only in the United States. There are many other rites such as the York rite. I assume conspiracy theorists think all Master Masons try to progress inside the Scottish rite as it's the most popular one in the USA.

Officially, in all recognised Masonic lodges, the position of 'Master Mason' is the highest one can achieve. Any further advancements, such as in the Scottish rite, are parallel to it. The 'secrets' revealed are rather childish in my opinion - the password 'Boaz', some additional change to the handshake, etc.



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29 Aug 2010, 10:44 pm

Khan_Sama wrote:
Officially, in all recognised Masonic lodges, the position of 'Master Mason' is the highest one can achieve. Any further advancements, such as in the Scottish rite, are parallel to it. The 'secrets' revealed are rather childish in my opinion - the password 'Boaz', some additional change to the handshake, etc.


this nationally enquiring mind wants to know- what would the powers-that-be [in the masonic hierarchy] think about the "childish" information you divulged, above? i was under the impression [from my master mason grandfather] that every bit of masonic inside information was strictly for members only, and never to be even hinted-at, to outsiders, on pain of unspecified sanctions paid to anybody who talks? just curious....



Khan_Sama
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30 Aug 2010, 3:18 am

auntblabby wrote:
this nationally enquiring mind wants to know- what would the powers-that-be [in the masonic hierarchy] think about the "childish" information you divulged, above? i was under the impression [from my master mason grandfather] that every bit of masonic inside information was strictly for members only, and never to be even hinted-at, to outsiders, on pain of unspecified sanctions paid to anybody who talks? just curious....


Yeah, my dad used to tell the same to me when I was a kid. He used insist that their 'secret activities' involved 'treasure hunting' and such. As I grew older, he left the Masons out of boredom. He also complained about the bad catering service. After that, he didn't hesitate to tell me about these 'secrets'. To him, it's nothing more than a charity club emphasizing on brotherhood and morality with a combination of silly rituals.

The secrecy is merely to cloak their benevolent activities. For example, when the Gujarat earthquake occurred in India, all the masons from my city contributed certain amounts, purchased wheelchairs for the injured, and shipped them to the affected areas using the name of a hospital (or some NGO - I can't remember) based somewhere else. The 'unspecified sanctions' are used as an excuse in most cases to prevent public knowledge of these events.

I don't doubt Masons have indulged in sinister activities, however. Take propaganda due for example. I just don't find any reason they were the norm rather than the extremely rare exception, if at all.



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30 Aug 2010, 3:43 am

I heard about these drawing of ancient astronaut looking figures in caves somewhere in Africa. It looked like they were wearing fishbowls on their heads. Much the way a diving suit looks today. Very strange indeed...