Anti-whaling thread

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yeah, but then... they are not even animals. they are demons. DEMONS I SAY!! ! SOMEONE MAKE THE NOISE STOP!! ! PLEASE I JUST WANT IT TO STOP!! !

*ahem*

Generally, I think veganism is actually speciesist in the same way holding a door for a lady is misogynist; If humans are animals, we should be allowed to eat other animals just like any other omnivore or carnivore.

However, people need to realize that there is only so much the world can feed. I hope that someday soon the switch will flip, and people will realize the danger of overpopulation. Until then, we do need to protect species like tuna and whales that are being overharvested, not just for the sake of those species, but for our own sakes as well.

Nobody is saying ending human suffering isn't important, but the ecosystems of the world are in a balance, and while it might be nice to think nothing will go wrong if we disrupt that balance, but the data disagrees. Ecological systems are so complex things you might never expect to happen might end up destroying all humanity. thousands of species subsist themselves on the rotting corpses of whales. what would happen to these species if whales went extinct? what would happen if those species went extinct? we know too little about them to say, but these benthic enigmas could produce biological agents that could be useful in medical research, or they may have genes we might want for bio-engineering.

And it doesn't stop there. Whales are very intelligent, much more so than pigs or domestic noise demons from the nethermost abyss of hell. If they are inferior to us, what will happen when we finally find intelligent extraterrestrial life? How will we treat them? these ethical concerns are better addressed first on earth.

as for the sea sheperds (I can't believe I couldn't figure out how to spell that word when I see it so often), I support their piracy. We are moving into a terrible dystopia. for example If a teacher blocks a student from leaving the class, that's not using force, but if the student pushes said teacher out of the way, that is? bull. I don't want to live in a world were the only way you can stand up for your beliefs is by running through some bureaucratic obstacle course. Sure, they're drama queens, and at times I want to smack them myself. Sure, in the long run they will probably accomplish nothing. but they aren't hurting anyone, and if semi-non-violent vigilanteism is the only way to enforce the law, then what must be done must be done.

mmm, whale kebab.

Who... is that?

I think that is Son of Sam, but I could be wrong.

ruveyn

Wrt. veganism and starvation, please consider trophic level energy loss:
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultran ... hains.html

In other words, the starving people of the world would be better off if we fed the corn to them instead of feeding the corn to cows, because we get fewer calories out of a cow than we put into it.

For a purely food-quantity-based argument, the only meat production that is justified is browsing animals that consume cellulosic material of little to no nutritional value to humans, such as goats herded on marginal and/or steep and hilly land where no vegetable crops can be produced.

Thankfully for our palates, we are far from being at the point where we have to make choices like that.

David Berkowitz AKA Son of Sam. He claimed that his neighbor's dog instructed him to kill and claimed that the dog was possessed by a demon.

I don't want to kill any humans because of the noise, though if this goes on much longer, I might snap and kill all of the domestic noise demons.

LKL: While it's true that energy is lost on each trophic level, it takes more energy to digest plant matter than to digest meat.

Ooo... I remember when all that was happening and they didn't know he was the one doing it yet, it was disturbing but interesting as well following it on the news... and that picture of him, his eyes still creeps me out when I see it.

We get just as much energy from a calorie of plant material as a calorie of meat; we just have to eat more plants to get that calorie. However, it takes many times the *calories* of plant material to produce every *calorie* of meat, so even though the meat is denser nutrition you still end up short on the calorie end. Which is what counts, when you're starving.

Correct.

What matters is energy density.

Meat is optimal. Sugar is next.

ruveyn

[quote]Screw 'save the whales', I say 'save the Americans' because we're committing suicide between bad economic policy and the various nation building abroad and the newly brewing trade war with China. Obsession over animal welfare is a luxury cause.


Spoken like a true red neck

It's not a luxury cause to care about the planet, people, and animals all at the same time. It called using your brain.

It's called using your brain.

Spelling errors made when you're trying to look smarter than the other guy don't help your cause.

You should know who you're addressing before you start throwing out random insults. Calling me a redneck just makes you look look dumb considering that I'm about as far away from redneck as you can get. But hey, I don't expect some animal rights moron to actually have a working brain.

And I fixed your messed up BB code.

interesting enough, believing in environmentalism or taking an anti-whaling stance can be done without being delusional and trying to free cows or some other nonsense. you just did the exact same thing you mocked Othila for.

not that you care, or anything.

That post was tit for tat and not much more. Keep away from the personal insults and I'll stay clean too.

I somewhat do care about environmentalism but from a much more pragmatic standpoint and understand that the real challenges isn't in getting people to do sheep stuff like wasting extra time washing out the plastics and making sure they're separate from the glass and the paper but rather is in the big steps such as redesigning our infrastructure rather than simply trying to cut and paste new technology over worn holes. Right now there's no effective plan or set implementation for a full electric car system. The closest I've seen is Toyota* is working on a car and system similar to what I had imagined would be necessary (an inductive model that can draw power as it is driven). Unfortunately, Toyota is not an American company and my guess would be that their intended market for this research wouldn't be Americans. It obviously wouldn't eliminate all need for oil but it would take a decent dent out and would help lower costs everywhere from shipping and airfare to the foods and other goods that need shipping.

Saving animals, however, is just poppycock. Species appear and disappear all the time. Is anyone really that sentimental about the dodo? Did it at least taste good? I can't imagine it being any more impressive than most other fowl.


*I think...may have been Honda.