Home-shool has screwed... [split of religion-related posts]

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171NewYork
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22 Apr 2005, 4:36 pm

1. My parents say that I need to have a faith and that I need to have someone higher to beleive in.

2. Yes, I do learn Hebrew and can speak it, probably because my parents are Isrealis in addition to Jews...it's my foreign-language studies in school...I can speak a little myself, and I have a program to post in it, but learning it sucks...I hate reading out loud in any language, but I always mix up the words in Hebrew...and while secular Hebrew is tolerable, all the prayer crap is so boring and so hard!! !! !



Glenn
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25 Apr 2005, 5:56 am

171NewYork, whatever you truly believe must come from your own inner nature ....your heart, if you like. With all respect to your parents, what they themselves believe and what they would like you to believe is irrelevant; for example, if in your basic nature, and after thinking about it, you cannot accept and believe in the existence of God, then you are an atheist, whatever you choose to tell, or discuss with, you mother to avoid her disapproval or discomfort. You may however be an agnostic....my understanding of this is that agnostics acknowledge that there may be a god, but believe it is not ever possible for mankind to truly comprehend his nature or intentions.
But in my opinion it can only be a good thing when someone , such as yourself, questions their own beliefs, instead of blindly accepting what they have been taught from childhood. I think that if you do this, you may well end up with a much stronger set of beliefs that will support and help you through the rest of your life. But perhaps religious belief is never 'fixed in cement'...maybe you will continue to query and amend your beliefs from time to time all through your life! To me, this would not be a bad thing. You may even decide to return to the religion you were taught when young!
I have said elsewhere (for example in that long and rambling thread about fundamentalism!) that I am a Buddhist. In a sense, this is not a "religion" since it does not involve any belief in a personal God or Creator. (Also, it does not require its followers to study yoga, as was mentioned a way back!) It does however involve a belief in the spiritual side of our nature, and a wish to develop and use this in the most ethical and positive way. I think Buddhism can meet the spritual needs of those people who may have a problem with other orthodox, "God-based" religions. But remember, whatever you finally decide you believe, it is just that; a "belief". Nobody can know for sure that we have the only Truth, so (in my own opinion again ) we should never try to force or persuade others to agree with us. Yoo many of the world's woes have been caused by this kind of thing!

Glenn



171NewYork
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25 Apr 2005, 1:15 pm

Personally, I'd like to be an Agnostic, but my parents won't hear of it. :(



Ante
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25 Apr 2005, 1:21 pm

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jetson
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25 Apr 2005, 3:44 pm

Rekkr wrote:
Do you understand what atheism and agnosticism are? They are not religions like Christianity and Judaism. Atheists believe there is no god and agnostics are unsure and irreligious (for an easy explaination).
I don't know where the idea started that agnostics are unsure. I think it was a Monty Python sketch. People think agnostics are unsure because they have no opinion on the matter, but that's really just because they lack the need for a system of religious beliefs in the first place. The question of whether or not God exists is simply pointless.


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25 Apr 2005, 3:57 pm

AntiEverything wrote:
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks except for you. Faith is an individual concept, not a group one. If you have agnostic beliefs you are agnostic whether your parents dismiss, discourage or disapprove of your way of thinking or not.


This ^^^^^ is very true.

I think the confusion is coming from the fact that, and this is just my take on it after reading many of 171NY's post, his parents aren't making him *beleive* so much as *study* a faith. It sounds like 171NY is trying to get out of studying a faith, as part of his homeschooling, by claiming to be...well, just about anything with little creed so there is little to study.

His parents are countering this...lack of interest in study....by saying, okay, you don't need to study *our* faith, pick another to study.


Does this sound accurate, 171?

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25 Apr 2005, 5:14 pm

171NewYork wrote:
What about other religions?

I definetely don't want Islam due to the terrorism, Protestantism due to the evangelism, Sikhism due to the turbans, Hinduism or Jainism due to the veganism, Buddhism due to the yoga...and that's jut one reason for each...I think that's about all the religions there are.

I'd like to be an Atheist or Agnostic, but my mother will never go for that...I just with there was a way I could remain Jewish and God-beleiving without having to do religion in school.

Be your own person. Believe in God but dont take an official stance, just call yourself Christian


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171NewYork
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25 Apr 2005, 5:41 pm

Is it wrong to call myself Jewish instead of Christian but have those beleifs? :?



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25 Apr 2005, 6:11 pm

171NewYork wrote:
Is it wrong to call myself Jewish instead of Christian but have those beleifs? :?


Well, I guess you are a Christian if you believe that Jesus was the son of God, and that he is your saviour. Through my research of religions I have heard of Messianic Judaism. Messianic Jews are people who still consider themselves Jewish, usually don't think of themselves as Christians, they believe Jesus was the Messiah, and use the New Testament as part of their scripture.

The whole idea of Messianic Judaism is very controversial, and it will probably make your parents very upset. This is what The Daily Show with Jon Stewart had to say about Messianic Judaism: (talking about different religion's donations for the week) 'The Jews for Jesus came in last at $0. But can you really put a price on annoying two religions at once?' :lol:

171NewYork, you mentioned before that you want to be agnostic. Agnostics and Christians don't really believe the same things. I recommend doing some research on different faiths and deciding what you believe for yourself. Spirituality is not to be taken lightly.



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25 Apr 2005, 7:48 pm

Quote:
Is it wrong to call myself Jewish instead of Christian but have those beleifs?


There is more to it than believing that Jesus in the son of G-d. Christianity also entails believing that:

* Jesus is G-d in the flesh
*That there are actually three distinct personalities and physical presences in the one G-d. This is called the trinity. The three persons of the trinity can cooperate, pray to each other, ask one another for help, beg each other not to forsake them, and so on, but remember, this is only one G-d!
*Moreover, one of the three is able to die, apparently, and to be tempted by sin.
*All humans are born evil, since we are descended from Adam and Eve.
*If we don't invite Jesus into our hearts, we'll go to hell.
*All people who haven't invited Jesus into their hearts, go to hell. Even if they were in some foreign country and hadn't heard of him, or had been terrorized by Christians, and even if they were under 12 years old.
*Christianity is the only right way to believe, and everyone else is wrong.
__________________________________________________________
As you can see, there is almost nothing in common between being an agnostic and a Christian. What I would suggest is to continue studying what you are studying, and see if you disagree with what you are learning about, and then research other religions and compare them.

By all means, do _not_ simply decide that one thign or another must be good, and then adopt that as a title. Be informed, very informed.



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19 May 2005, 10:14 am

Being religious because your parents tell you to is rather an odd concept for me. Suppose there was a group of people who thought there was a pink unicorn in orbit around pluto, and another group who thought the unicorn was blue, and another who though there were two unicorns; a green one and a red one, and a group who thought there wasn't any evidence of a unicorn of any discription.

If you sincerely thought there wasn't any evidence for it, you could still go the meetings of the other groups, and go through the motions of sending pulsed laser signals to the pink or blue or whatever unicorn (never getting a reply btw), talking about what a deep friendship you had with the unicorn(s) and so on, but it would just be a pretense. You can't change what you really believe, so I'd recommend you be whatever your beliefs tell you to be, whether it be blue, pink or nothing at all.


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Brightness
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28 May 2005, 2:55 pm

171NewYork, on the homeschool front - how about suggesting to your parents to do a course on comparative religion and philosophy instead? It can be a very serious and interesting course.

Regarding your personal searches - www.religioustolerance.org has some information and links on dozens of religions. Not enough to really learn to know any religion, but a starting point.

If you lean towards atheism but want an emphasis on values, you may be interested in secular humanism. If you want (or you feel your parents would accept it better) secular humanism with a Jewish flavor, see Humanistic Judaism. You might find a way that is at the same time satisfying for yourself while putting your parents at peace that their son isn't going to turn into total immorality just because he doesn't share their religious views.



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11 Jul 2005, 6:02 pm

Sean wrote:
Are you talking about Orthodox or Reformed Judaism? What you're saying dosen't sound like the Orthodox people I've known. Personally, I've found the Messianic Jews to be an interesting bunch. They seem to have alot of insight into the Old Testament and apply it to the New Testament in a very harmonious way.


Messianic Jews seem to combine both Jewish and Christian beliefs. I know a family who are Messianic Jews and they celebrate both Hanukkah and Easter and are fairly openminded about other religious beliefs.

chamoisee wrote:
*Christianity is the only right way to believe, and everyone else is wrong.


Are you sure about this? I'm a Christian, but do not believe that Christianity is the only way people should believe.

171, would it work if you were non-commital for a while until you find something that works? Maybe you could talk to your parents about either continuing your religious studies or, like Brightness suggested, try something that lets you learn about several different religious belief systems. My little brother is still homeschooled and my mom combines geography with cultural studies with him for lessons. Perhaps if you have an interest in other parts of the world, you could study their religion and culture while studying geography and history.


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aaronkt
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15 Jul 2005, 3:55 pm

aspergian_mutant wrote:
(Okay, this is actually chamoisee, I forgot to log mutant out before I began. sorry)

I dunno. What I *loved* about Judaism was its open-mindedness and freedom of thought, and encouragement of seeking new ways to look at parts of the bible. (Yeah, I know that will surprise some people).

In Christianity there is often only one way to see a particular story or verse or whatever. That's always irritated me. It seemed pretty one dimensional and exclusive. Moreover, it's anathema to question the accepted meaning of said verse, story, etc. If you do, you are told that you just need to have faith, or another verse is quoted out of context to "prove" the other verse. "Faith" always means end of story, don't ask anymore questions or maybe you're not a real Christian or maybe you need prayers for doubt.

In Judaism, the bible is like a kaleidoscope. Every story has many meanings and lots of depth, links to other stories, legends, the mishnah, and it just goes on and on. There is no one way to look at it, and if you don't entirely agree with the interpretation you just read, there are a whole lot of other, also acceptable answers or ideas to pick from or you can come up with your own. You can think pretty much whatever you please, feel what you want to feel...unlike Christianity there is no sin in thinking about sleeping with someone, for example. NO thought crimes!

There are strong routines, ways of doing things, but being aspie I found these comforting and that they centered me, rather than seeing them as restrictive.

Another way I saw it: Christianity was about guilt; "I'm not good enough, we can't be good enough, that's why we need Jesus, we can never be good enough, we're filthy rags no matter how hard we try, our hearts are full of wickedness, ad nauseum...". How depressing.

Judaism was more like: Nobody's perfect. Start today. Give it your best shot today. If you screw up, try to go and make it right. I liked that. It was realistic and encouraging to me. (and now that I've written all this, I am once more tempted to go convert!).


I get so mad at all the Christians who say all Autistics are going to hell.



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16 Jul 2005, 12:51 am

I'm agnostic and don't see that changing any time soon. (That's agnostic in the "the question is moot" sense, not the "I can't decide" sense.)

If I absolutely, positively *had* to choose a religion I would probably join the The Religious Society of Friends (a.k.a. the Quakers). They are a branch of Christianity that formed in 1660 in England as an egalitarian, non-heirarchical church that opposed the excessive power abuses, paternalism and top-down bureaucracy of the Catholic and Protestant faiths, as well as the whole idea that the common people needed clergy to speak to God on their behalf (for a price) and interpret the bible for them. They were persecuted by Cromwell and Charles II as heretics. They are very accepting of diversity, whether it's neurological, sexual orientation, or anything else. True to their name, they are some of the friendliest people I have ever met. As a fringe benefit, Quakers are one of the few groups of people automatically granted "consciencious objector" status by most western militaries.

Since 171NewYork is Jewish, another option would be B'nai Brith.


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16 Jul 2005, 9:52 pm

aaronkt wrote:
I get so mad at all the Christians who say all Autistics are going to hell.


Since when do Christians say that all Autistics are going to hell? *confused* I, for one, certainly do not believe that. Heaven and hell has nothing to do with the fact that we're different from everyone else; it has everything to do with what we believe.


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