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RErnest
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12 Feb 2011, 11:36 pm

This question might not sound like it has much to do with schools at first glance, but I can assure you ... it will.

I am curious as to what answers some around here might give to the following question.

Say there are three computers. The first computer is fully functional. The second computer is functional but can only perform at best the minimum amount of duties due to a need for upgrading. The third computer is not functional and needs to be repaired. Say that we have a budget around $10,000. How much of this budget should we apply to each computer (1, 2, and 3)? And which computer should get the most from this budget?



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12 Feb 2011, 11:59 pm

Nothing needs to be allocated to the first. The second should get some money for upgrades, and the third whatever is necessary for repairs. The third will likely get the most from the budget (does it need upgraded as well or just repaired?)

I assume this is some type of allegory towards what school districts should be funded more heavily, probably with an implicit critique of the NCLB law which defunds schools that have problems.


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13 Feb 2011, 12:04 am

Well, right, and if it is an allegory, the real issue would have to also be rebutting the opposing view. The opponents instead view this as not being like computers, but rather like companies. If one company is doing bad, then if it has to worry about funding, then it will work harder, and become more innovative to deal with the strain, however, if a company gets continuous subsidies without regard for behavior, then it will get bloated and inefficient, and this is not something a computer will do.

I mean, the problem is that both interpretations are going to have some validity to them, and so the direct application to reality is flawed.



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13 Feb 2011, 9:47 am

My answer would be different for schools and computers. Computers are a dime a dozen and are by some standards constantly improving.

Scrapping the weak and sickly makes sense.

Schools - though I wish we could fix the SYSTEM - do NOT grow on trees and are not constantly being upgraded. I would have to think hard to decide there.



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13 Feb 2011, 11:26 am

RErnest wrote:
This question might not sound like it has much to do with schools at first glance, but I can assure you ... it will.

I am curious as to what answers some around here might give to the following question.

Say there are three computers. The first computer is fully functional. The second computer is functional but can only perform at best the minimum amount of duties due to a need for upgrading. The third computer is not functional and needs to be repaired. Say that we have a budget around $10,000. How much of this budget should we apply to each computer (1, 2, and 3)? And which computer should get the most from this budget?


Scrap 3 and buy a better new one.

ruveyn



RErnest
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13 Feb 2011, 4:38 pm

It was definitely true that I had the merits of NCLB on my mind upon asking this question. It can be argued whether or not schools should be run as companies. I suspect that the actuality of NCLB produces more waste than not, providing more money to schools who do not need a lot of repairs. I doubt that the real reasons why some schools are failing are adequately looked at, since much of their progress is based on standardized tests. So, it is a lot like computers and companies. Standardized tests foster memorization and obedience, foster little in terms of creativity and are culled from specific thinking paradigms. Standardized tests are designed to create robotic students, and their designs can be traced back to the earliest forms of timed testing strategies used in the old days to create efficient factory workers. Whether or not the schools who gain the most out of NCLB actually produce innovative students can be greatly debated. I imagine that there is more vision and innovative thinking inside of the prison system than the school system. Most students who think differently can and do slip through the cracks, and there is evidence that the inability to think ahead and plan is linked to creativity and innovation. NCLB produces disheartened, troubled individuals who may well be much more intelligent than seen at first glance but who lack the resources to put their talents to decent use. NCLB is good for business, and so it is good for companies. It is not good for students.

The idea I was trying to put forth with this question was an attempt to get away from conventional NCLB rhetoric. It is not about that schools are havens for bad teachers, but rather that there are many students who are ineffectively taught due to conventional teaching standards. In essence, we are promoting schools that fail to foster creativity. About 80% of the population must be obedient. NCLB is likely designed such that students find it much harder to climb the corporate hierarchy.



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13 Feb 2011, 4:48 pm

No idea what is NCLB - but uniformitatian mind stifling day care schools abound.

They are state of the art and what Bog Brother wants, I cannot see a change soon.

We want a socialized public, educated enough to read the paper - not a thinking public.



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13 Feb 2011, 5:30 pm

RErnest wrote:
I suspect that the actuality of NCLB produces more waste than not, providing more money to schools who do not need a lot of repairs.

Mainly it produces rampant fraud, since any school that doesn't show "improvement" is defunded even if they are already ranked as high as the system permits. My high school has recorded graduation rates in excess of 100% in order to keep its funding.


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14 Feb 2011, 11:13 pm

There is only one check list of tasks and requirements!

Does this make sence with public schools in America?



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14 Feb 2011, 11:50 pm

Teachers have complained a great deal to me about No Child Left Behind. I've noticed three things about elementary schools which wasn't true when I was in school.

- The school year is geared toward passing the standardized tests. I have heard numerous teachers in the district complain about this. If the children don't get it, they can't take any extra time. They have a schedule and must move on.

- While "graduation" rates are climbing, it doesn't mean the children are smarter. It just means they are getting promoted to the next grade. Getting passed through to the next grade, does not always equate to the child having mastered the skills for that grade.

- Keeping a child back is almost taboo, even when it may be for their own good.



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15 Feb 2011, 12:00 am

abaisse wrote:
Teachers have complained a great deal to me about No Child Left Behind. I've noticed three things about elementary schools which wasn't true when I was in school.

- The school year is geared toward passing the standardized tests. I have heard numerous teachers in the district complain about this. If the children don't get it, they can't take any extra time. They have a schedule and must move on.

- While "graduation" rates are climbing, it doesn't mean the children are smarter. It just means they are getting promoted to the next grade. Getting passed through to the next grade, does not always equate to the child having mastered the skills for that grade.

- Keeping a child back is almost taboo, even when it may be for their own good.


Since my time in the system, all this has been complained about and recomplained, and there is every year more and more. I suspect the syndrome was already there back in the 50s, I was just not in a position to notice.

Teaching to the test - the utmost was a teacher I sat under for a while in the 70s. Her idea of teaching was reading to us out of the textbook we were supposed to have read, raising her voice to emphasize the parts that were to be on the test.

No Child Left Behind just put a silly Mr Zip name on it - long before either Bush we in the universities realized freshmen were coming in with empty tanks, forcing us to spend the first two years of college teaching high school.



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15 Feb 2011, 12:28 am

Philologos wrote:
abaisse wrote:
Teachers have complained a great deal to me about No Child Left Behind. I've noticed three things about elementary schools which wasn't true when I was in school.

- The school year is geared toward passing the standardized tests. I have heard numerous teachers in the district complain about this. If the children don't get it, they can't take any extra time. They have a schedule and must move on.

- While "graduation" rates are climbing, it doesn't mean the children are smarter. It just means they are getting promoted to the next grade. Getting passed through to the next grade, does not always equate to the child having mastered the skills for that grade.

- Keeping a child back is almost taboo, even when it may be for their own good.


Since my time in the system, all this has been complained about and recomplained, and there is every year more and more. I suspect the syndrome was already there back in the 50s, I was just not in a position to notice.

Teaching to the test - the utmost was a teacher I sat under for a while in the 70s. Her idea of teaching was reading to us out of the textbook we were supposed to have read, raising her voice to emphasize the parts that were to be on the test.

No Child Left Behind just put a silly Mr Zip name on it - long before either Bush we in the universities realized freshmen were coming in with empty tanks, forcing us to spend the first two years of college teaching high school.


When I was in school, it was commonplace for children to be held back. During Child Psychology, we looked at grade retention. The rates were drastically decreased from my generation. The reason for that and the results are controversial.

My friend who is an English professor complains that there is a new generation of students that do not realize that SMS language is inappropriate. One instance that stands out is a college freshman who did not realize that "u" is actually spelled "you". 8O



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15 Feb 2011, 12:38 am

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My friend who is an English professor complains that there is a new generation of students that do not realize that SMS language is inappropriate. One instance that stands out is a college freshman who did not realize that "u" is actually spelled "you". Shocked

I have corrected many essays from topics like literature or anthropology to history, and many college & high school students do this, I get a little sadder for the future every time I come across a 'u', 'k', 'rly'. I even remember one where someone used loled... :cry:


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15 Feb 2011, 12:58 am

Vigilans wrote:
Quote:
My friend who is an English professor complains that there is a new generation of students that do not realize that SMS language is inappropriate. One instance that stands out is a college freshman who did not realize that "u" is actually spelled "you". Shocked

I have corrected many essays from topics like literature or anthropology to history, and many college & high school students do this, I get a little sadder for the future every time I come across a 'u', 'k', 'rly'. I even remember one where someone used loled... :cry:


Oy veh - at least I took early retirement - doing some of my colleagues and myself a favor - before that reached our department!

Mind you, there were other things that had to be combatted in olden times - it was not just stopping the young from wearing taps on their shoes. Wonder how many remember that. But not all of it was reasonable - my brother's teacher who made her students pronounce "and" to rhyme with "fond" becaused she hated the sound of Upper Midwest speech.

Even the golden days were not without some tarnish.

[5, 4, 3 , 2 ....]



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15 Feb 2011, 1:00 am

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my brother's teacher who made her students pronounce "and" to rhyme with "fond" becaused she hated the sound of Upper Midwest speech.

That is so ignorant. There different dialects of English. I hate linguistic based hatred, I experience it on an almost daily basis...


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15 Feb 2011, 1:24 am

10k for a school computer? you could probably get at least ten net-books and hook them up to monitors. This is assuming your not talking about universities or community colleges. The net-books can also be transported to different locations if needed, this of course also might mean they get stolen but that can be taken care of with security procedures. Just keep the first one and use the last two to one of your computer classes as playthings.

EDIT: I wouldn't even bother with the monitors, there are some well sized net-books for around 500.
EDIT: Not sure why I immediately imagined the budget as belonging to a school. But if that does not fit just change it too sale and/or scrap.