Gay marriages and civil partnerships in church

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Should this ever be allowed? Surely not, as quite obviously, Christianity is against homosexuality. Whether thats right or not is a different issue. But in no way should the church change its policies to accommodate for gays, thats not equality. I'm not religious myself, but if people of the same sex want to get married, there are other countries they can do this, or be happy with a civil partnership. I'm sure they'll be able to get married in a registry office soon anyway.

What about religions that have no problem with people of the same gender marrying?

The problem is not that a religion should change its policies or not. The problem is that a government should never base its recognition of relationships on what a specific church says. I suppose you are talking about the UK, which is especially bad with its lack of true separation between church and state. The current solution there (leaving the marriage to heterosexuals and having a parallel, yet not exactly identical civil institution called civil partnership for homosexuals) is the worst thing that could happen. It has happened in the past in other places before, and has a name: "separate but equal", i.e. segregation (or to put it bluntly: apartheid).

The solution is simple: remove any form of recognition by the state of any religious sacrament. If you want to marry for your religion, by all means do, but you shouldn't expect the state to recognise that union. If you want your union recognised by the state, have it done by the state.

As for refusing to call a civil union a marriage, I call b*****t on that one. Words change meaning. Marriages can be and has always been performed by civil institutions. Churches don't have a monopoly on marriage.

The right solution is the one that exists in the Netherlands: the civil union is open to everyone, gay or straight, and is officially called a marriage. If people also want to have a religious office, they can (gay people too: the Remonstrantse Broederschap, a separate branch of Protestants have had religious weddings for gay people since 1988), and it's also called a marriage (there's no confusion, simply because people never have only a religious marriage: they'd lack the advantages of being married for law). And because of the separation of church and state, churches don't have to recognise civil marriages (just like they don't recognise marriages performed by other faiths, except under certain circumstances), while the state doesn't have to recognise religious marriages. Everybody is happy, except a small minority of people who want to impose their restricted worldview to everyone.

I see what you're saying, but maybe its the minority of people wanting to make gay marriage legal who want to impose their view on everyone? I agree, i'm not saying that the goverment should their recognition of relationships on what the church says, i'm just saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married in a church, if the religion of that church is against gay marriage.

If you are suggesting that should be the case throughout Christianity, specifically, then who would have the authority or power to enforce such a thing ... the government?

Shouldn't the Church Of England be able to have a say in that, in our country at least?

I do not know enough about politics around the globe to answer that, but I do know a "state church" would do as the state says ... and that an "independent church" or "autonomous denomination" or whatever would decide who does what within its walls unless/until the state imposed control over it.

You might be able to find more about that kind of thing here: http://www.aclj.org/Default.aspx

Well its bound to happen soon enough either way.

Oh yes, you can be sure of that ...


Once that is in place, people like me will have been eradicated if not conformed or already dead.

Well, if you want to deny them a 'Christian' marriage, that's your 'right' I suppose. But who says marriage is a religious ceremony? We live in a secular society. Unless you specifically seek out a gay couple that gets married I doubt it will ever have any effect on your life, so why even care?

I wonder if homosexual-oriented denominations exist to provide religious services to them and provide religious union for those who think religion is what makes marriage special

Marriages made in Church should not have any at all legal bearings. That means that if you are married in a Church, it should not mean any legal privileges (as the case is today).

The state should offer civil unions between consenting adult individuals, equal between hetero- and homosexual couples.

The main problem right now is that if Adam loves Steve and Adam dies, Steve won't be able to inherit Adam. Moreover, if you live in a country with a private insurance, Steve could not get a surgery on Adam's insurance, which he would have been able to get had his name been "Steve" and he had been "mrs" Adam.

Moreover, it's just silly for aspies to be homophobic, as it is silly for us to be sexist or racist. If you allow decisions on prejudice, then you shouldn't complain if you are discriminated or treated badly because of your condition.

I would never get married in a church as I don't believe in god and think it's insulting to the religion in a way and also means I don't really mean my vows. As someone who is gay I definitely wouldn't want to be part of something that tells me something I am and didn't chose is wrong! Surely if god created everything then he created homosexuality so how dare he then say it's wrong!

I probably shouldn't care, I know. Its just another group pushing for equality, when they've already got it here.

Thats a good point.

And i'm not homophobic, that would mean i'd be against homosexuality altogether.

Well "he" obviously sees it as a sin.

I wouldn't say there is perfect equality for them. Nobody is really 'equal'. Rather, some people are 'more equal' then others...