Why Obama is worse than Nixon

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Orwell
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11 Mar 2011, 8:16 pm

simon_says wrote:

Refrain from calling me a liar punk. WHen clearly what I said was accurate.

What you said was demonstrably false.

Quote:

I also said they have another name for it but the intent is the same.

The intent is to punish/torture Manning.

Quote:

Develop some basic character and maybe we can speak in future. Until then I don't speak with trash.

You've got some damn nerve, lecturing me on character while you sit comfortably at your computer and justify torture. You're despicable.

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Zara
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11 Mar 2011, 8:17 pm

simon_says wrote:

He certainly was on suicide watch, they call it some kind of protective something or other, whether or not it's justified is something else.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/ ... ide-watch/

Guys like you just get so upset that you can't even do basic fact checking. You have the internet at your fingertips but you'd rather cry wolf. That's just sad and shows a lack of character. Best of luck.

He's on POI, Prevention of Injury watch. Manning was only very briefly on Suicide Watch when there were media rumors of him commiting suicide.

POI is not the same as Suicide watch. The latter requires the brig psychologist to sign off on. Who I might add has repeatedly stated that Manning is not suicidal.

The being naked at night is nothing more than a punishment for a sarcastic quip; it's not to prevent his injury as he still has his clothes during the day and is monitored constantly day and night which doesn't even support the logic of this.

I think it seriously calls into question on how the DoD is handling this as more and more this is coming off as punishment without conviction. There's definite room for debate on how legal and constitutional this is.

As for Obama, I tend to agree with the OP. He's been the biggest hypocrite on this controversy and could easily end this farce of justice if he wanted.

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skafather84
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11 Mar 2011, 8:18 pm

simon_says wrote:

it's silly to make smart remarks in front of people who have legal power over you.

Torture is never legal. Nor is sexual harassment.

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simon_says
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11 Mar 2011, 8:18 pm

Orwell wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Refrain from calling me a liar punk. WHen clearly what I said was accurate.

What you said was demonstrably false.

Quote:

I also said they have another name for it but the intent is the same.

The intent is to punish/torture Manning.

Quote:

Develop some basic character and maybe we can speak in future. Until then I don't speak with trash.

You've got some damn nerve, lecturing me on character while you sit comfortably at your computer and justify torture. You're despicable.

You are the one lying. And like a typical 21 year old, you lack the character to set the record straight. Best of luck son.

Orwell
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11 Mar 2011, 8:22 pm

Zara wrote:

There's definite room for debate on how legal and constitutional this is.

No there isn't. It is indisputably illegal.

Simon, you're full of crap. Manning is not on suicide watch; he was illegally placed on suicide watch for two days and then moved down to POI watch before anyone had to face real responsibility for acting outside of procedure.

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zer0netgain
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11 Mar 2011, 8:25 pm

Frankly, the military can claim whatever it wants.

They say he threatened to harm himself. That could be total fabrication on their part, but by saying it they can justify doing these things to break him under the guise of protecting him. They don't bear a burden to prove he actually said it.

Frankly, if he's stripped to his underwear and being watched 24/7, there is no reason to strip him naked or make him sleep in a cold room without a blanket to keep warm.

The description of how they are keeping him fits the profile for classic torture via sleep deprivation.

skafather84
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11 Mar 2011, 8:31 pm

simon_says wrote:

Orwell wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Refrain from calling me a liar punk. WHen clearly what I said was accurate.

What you said was demonstrably false.

Quote:

I also said they have another name for it but the intent is the same.

The intent is to punish/torture Manning.

Quote:

Develop some basic character and maybe we can speak in future. Until then I don't speak with trash.

You've got some damn nerve, lecturing me on character while you sit comfortably at your computer and justify torture. You're despicable.

You are the one lying. And like a typical 21 year old, you lack the character to set the record straight. Best of luck son.

I SENSE THE PRESENCE OF A TROLL.

simon_says
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11 Mar 2011, 8:33 pm

Apparently theyve given him a suicide proof sleep suit now so he doesnt have to sleep naked.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

Quote:

SENSE THE PRESENCE OF A TROLL.

I'm sure you sense many things. None of them real. But keep running with the pack, maybe you'll feel big.

skafather84
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11 Mar 2011, 8:49 pm

simon_says wrote:

Apparently theyve given him a suicide proof sleep suit now so he doesnt have to sleep naked.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

Quote:

SENSE THE PRESENCE OF A TROLL.

I'm sure you sense many things. None of them real. But keep running with the pack, maybe you'll feel big.

You are ridiculous.

techstepgenr8tion
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11 Mar 2011, 8:51 pm

Something worth mentioning perhaps..... you guys do realize you're reading an article from... English Al Jazeera..... right?

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simon_says
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11 Mar 2011, 8:52 pm

:lol:

skafather84
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11 Mar 2011, 8:59 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Something worth mentioning perhaps..... you guys do realize you're reading an article from... English Al Jazeera..... right?

Not sure why you're saying guys when simon_says is the only one arguing that it's okay and legal.

I'm not sure I'd say Obama is worse than Nixon. I think if Nixon had the same availabilities today back when he was president, he would have done the same. The War Against Terrorism (TWAT for short) has granted a lot of availability to torture and what not and I'm against all of it.

Orwell
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11 Mar 2011, 8:59 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Something worth mentioning perhaps..... you guys do realize you're reading an article from... English Al Jazeera..... right?

So? The facts are correct, and are corroborated by plenty of other media sources (or, in the case of Nixon references, the historical record).

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ikorack
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11 Mar 2011, 9:01 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Something worth mentioning perhaps..... you guys do realize you're reading an article from... English Al Jazeera..... right?

What of it, their credibility has been studied and they have been found to have some substance as a news organization.

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_a ... index.html

Here is one, although it is not based on the actual content of their news outlets.

simon_says
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11 Mar 2011, 9:08 pm

skafather84 wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Something worth mentioning perhaps..... you guys do realize you're reading an article from... English Al Jazeera..... right?

Not sure why you're saying guys when simon_says is the only one arguing that it's okay and legal.
.

I'm arguing that we don't know all of the details of his treatment.

But I see him as a traitor. I'm hoping he's found guilty and the judge sets aside the life sentence and executes him. Privates don't get to release half a million war documents just because they are unhappy with their service and looking for a purpose in life.

techstepgenr8tion
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11 Mar 2011, 10:16 pm

skafather84 wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Something worth mentioning perhaps..... you guys do realize you're reading an article from... English Al Jazeera..... right?

Look at the OP, I'm pretty sure it was Vexcalibur and not simon.

Orwell wrote:

So? The facts are correct, and are corroborated by plenty of other media sources (or, in the case of Nixon references, the historical record).

I'm fine with that, just that I hope people do the same if Fox News posts something truthful. If we motive-monger Fox but not Al Jazeera we've got our pants on backward.

Although I'll admit, I haven't had the chance to detail and fact-find this article, they're sighting Media and Code Pink as someone who's in the know? She might be a very loving and kind individual, just that last time I heard her interviewed I got the impression she ate way too much ecstasy in her day, the problem is - if you get too esoteric a mindset on reality, if you get too far away from the basicity of what the rest of humanity is around you, you end up losing credibility and start subbing your own motives for theirs. I'll trust her opinion more when she can do an interview without gurning, until then I'll likely see her as a useful idiot for anyone who can beguile her, which, I don't think would be challenge for much of anyone.

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