Are you a Taoists ???

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I haven't received notices on the last few posts so I'm a little behind. I've missed you guys in the last month, good to see the thread still going! Two unrelated things:

1) Lex Hixon in Coming Home, gives his own experience using the I Ching in a chapter called "Conversations with an Ancient Chinese Sage." Good stuff. I still can't get into it.

2) Ursula Le Guin's "anarchist" interpretation of the Tao te Ching is a mixture of disappointments and happy surprises, here is one:

Sacred Power (Chapter 32)

the way goes on forever nameless.
Uncut wood, nothing important.
yet nobody under heaven
dares try to carve it.
If rulers and leaders could use it
the ten thousand things
would gather in homage.
heaven and earth would drop sweet dew
and people, without being ordered,
would be fair to one another.

To order, to govern,
is to begin naming;
when names proliferate
its time to stop.
If you know when to stop
you're in no danger.

The Way in the world
is as a stream to a valley,
a river to the sea.

Incidentally, the more I get into Stephen Mitchell's interpretation, the more I enjoy it. True, he does not know Chinese, but I think he has the spirit of the Tao in him.

and i dont think lao tsu read the tao te jing any more than jesus read the bible so...
there you go. Beware the scribes and scibblers lol.

I bought a new translation recently, its fairly new and quite true to the crystaline nature of the chinese i believe.

TAO TE CHING LAO-TZU
Translated by Stephen Addiss and Stanley Lombardo

Supposed to be best on the market right now, i'll let you decide, i like it as much as and perhaps more than Mitchell's which was what "unconverted" me in the first place.

well since this tao stuff isn't doing it for you guys (not you regulars ) heres something from a different angle. (the name that can be named etc...)

http://goldenrays.ning.com/
http://goldenrays.ning.com/group/firethegrid

http://indie-go.ning.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIC5T22-MDg&NR=1
http://goldenrays.ning.com/group/firethegrid

interesting!! ! I will look into this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ABEX7x ... re=related

Stay alive Bobby

I've been reading all of you recent posts, and I like what I see.
Sorry I've been away. Been busy workin'. Which sucks, but the money does
help out. Ciao, Pixel8 and Bobby1933.

I really also like the Gaia thread.
Add more later.

I'm editing this post for two reasons:

a)It is offthread and nothing to do with Taoism.

b)Lao Tzu teaches us:

22

The Master, by residing in the Tao,
sets an example for all beings.
Because he doesn't display himself,
people can see his light.
Because he has nothing to prove,
people can trust his words.
Because he doesn't know who he is,
people recognize themselves in him.
Because he has no goal in mind,
everything he does succeeds.

81

True words aren't eloquent;
eloquent words aren't true.
Wise men don't need to prove their point;
men who need to prove their point aren't wise.

The Tao nourishes by not forcing.
By not dominating, the Master leads.

I was drunk and angry,
Peace.

I could probably guess who...

61
When a country obtains great power,
it becomes like the sea:
all streams run downward into it.
The more powerful it grows,
the greater the need for humility.
Humility means trusting the Tao,
thus never needing to be defensive.

A great nation is like a great man:
When he makes a mistake, he realizes it.
Having realized it, he admits it.
Having admitted it, he corrects it.
He considers those who point out his faults
as his most benevolent teachers.
He thinks of his enemy
as the shadow that he himself casts.

If a nation is centered in the Tao,
if it nourishes its own people
and doesn't meddle in the affairs of others,
it will be a light to all nations in the world.

How interesting that you should post Stephen Mitchell's version of Chapter 61. I have been thinking about it for the past few days and how much I prefer it to LeGuin's translation

Lying Low

The polity of greatness
runs downhill like a river to the sea,
joining with everything
woman to everything.

(first paragraph, absolutely great!! But it goes awry here:)

By stillness the woman
may always dominate the man.
Lying quiet underneath him

(typical male sexist garbage masquerading as Taoist wisdom, probably not written by the same person who wrote the first paragraph!)

So a great country
submitting to small ones, dominates them;
so small countries,
submitting to a great one, dominate it.

Lie low to be on top,
be on top by lying low.

LeGuin obviously doesn't like this chapter. Though the parenthetical expressions are mine, I think she would agree with them. She does not even bother to translate the fourth verse which, she says,"is even feebler" than the others. Mitchell may not translate the chapter correctly, but at least he makes a Taoist discourse out of it.

I've recently aquired a new translation (new to me) by Stephen Addiss and Stanley Lombardo, it says this:

61

A great nation flows down
To be the world's pool,
The female under heaven
T'ien hsia chih p'in

In stillness
The female constantly overcomes the male,
In stillness
Takes the low place.

Therefore a great nation
Lowers itself
And wins over a small one.

A small nation
Keeps itself low
And wins over a great one.

Sometimes becoming low wins,
Sometimes staying low wins.

A great nation desires nothing more
Then to unite and protect people.
A small nation desires nothing more
Than to enter the service of people.

When they both get what they wish
The great one should be low.

Thanks for sharing. I am happy to see this conversation going again?
Those who know do not speak; but dammit, i like hearing those who think they know (and those who know they don't know) speak.
I hope to hear from more of you.

Taoism seems a philosophy for centuries
adapted to the mentality of the Chinese people,
and therefore is only valid philosophy for the
Chinese.

And yet its implications are so universal, so similar in intent and practice to the mystical traditions of all religions that it would be impossible for me to say it should be limited to one ethnic group. I don't have a Chinese gene in my heritage, yet philosophical Taoism, (zen Taoism) is at the core of my understanding of reality.
It is my religion (if i could be said to have one).