RELIGION- THE WAY FOWARD

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Good post werbert..

I just have to make one note

Scrapheap:
"None of the religions you mentioned are good. Monotheism has killed, maimed or oppressed more people than any other blight humanity has ever faced. "

Gotta tell you, people have killed, maimed, and oppressed people.. NOT religion.. It was only when monotheism was politicised that it became this way, and besides, for quite a while none of the leading world powers are church-driven (unless you believe in that conspiracy) and yet the wars go on, the killing goes on.

I don't agree with monotheism, but I do believe god is in motion, the dynamics of all things, what is different about my beliefs is that I don't separate existence from god...

Also I believe that which is unknowable is fundamentally unknowable so it is not my concern. However to feel the divinity in the dynamics of life, and call this god, WILL NOT hurt anybody! You can't claim monotheism hurts people, when many people practicing it help others, it is just as bad as saying that christianity is the truth and all others will burn in the fires of hell.

If you find your own way, give it some credence by being open minded to others, how can you expect someone to respect your agnostic/atheist/whatever views if you can't respect theirs?

While I may be considered agnostic + pantheist + nihilist ad absurdum... I don't feel the need to label myself as one or the other, does this make me superior? inferior? NO!

This makes me... me..

"Christianity is a sick, perverted, man-made religion. "

What its been used for is sick and perverted, the religion in itself isn't really gross or immoral, in fact when I read through the bible I generally received a "duh" feeling of common sense morals coming through the stories, symbols, and messages.

It is simply, humanity has the problems, if you want to share a message or understanding with others, respect theirs.

Just think, even the word god can mean everything to one, and nothing to another.

Funny how you say religion is the way forward when all throughout history it has been responsible for putting mankind behind. Homosexuals are evil and must not get married, you can't use condoms, no sex before marriage. And in olden times: Greatly slowed the growth of science and scientific discovery (such as Galileo and his heliocentric model of the solar system) - and the *still* deny dinosaurs as ever having existed. The list goes n. Oh, and the universe is apparently 10,000 years old according to the Bible. Ignorance everywhere.

I say just follow the moral lessons and don't worry about God. Take some responsibility for your own life and achievements.

*END RELIGIOUS RANT*

Religion debates are pointless on both sides if one does not actively chase their spirit and become aware of themselves beyond knowing its 'you' in a mirror.

For the skeptic, do you practice meditation? Its easy to be a skeptic if you completely void yourself from practice.

A lot of people, here, think they are similar to "Vulcans" from Star Trek but they only base it out of logic similarities. Why not take up the art of Meditation (relaxation, self reflection?). I think if we all did that, our religious debates wouldn't be full of disgust and "I'm right, you're wrong" thought processings

Religion is just taking values and beliefs found during meditation, writing them down, and telling other people how to live. One thing is for sure - forcing people to do anything doesn't work - if everyone meditated, effectively, then the values religion tries to get across would mean a bit more.

In regards to homosexuality and other stupid things, thats just religion trying to control people like a government does with its 'nationality' presentations.

Buddha, Muhammed, Jesus - they all meditated. They aren't 'unique' they just practiced it. Maybe they were aspies

Actually yeah, I do meditate. I do it before I go to sleep and when I wake up - a perfect way to start and end the day. I advise everyone to get into it.

Then don't attack those who don't hold the same view on the subject as yourself. Some of us have a negative opinion of Christianity and related religions, and you will not receive much warmth around here unless you can be accepting and tolerant toward those who hold this view and be open to honest, principled dialogue on the subject. If you want to talk about religion, you need to do so in tones that welcome all input, not merely input that supports it. You need to give alternative views on the subject equal weight to your own.

Could you kindly provide a list of the religions you dont think are good?

I logically attacked the god question years ago. I turned off my emotions and pursued the truth. I looked at the debate from every side but only one was logical - Atheism and therefore I'm an atheist. I'm quite happy with myself and have a peaceful center and cheery outlook (Most of the time) religion is negative. "The end is nigh!" and "Prepare for the end!" seem to be the only phrases I hear from the religious and have shock for apollacophillaics - THE END IS NOT NIGH! SHUT UP! this is just a rough of history and America isn't somehow special. Just because America dies doesn't mean the end of the world.

Right on!!

Too right, I was reading about Sihkism last night and even that has something to offer.

Let them call god whatever they will, if someone sees it in dynamics thats beautiful, if someone needs to pray to a concious being that is fine too.

However, religion did not CAUSE all the problems of mankind, eliminate it, and we'll find another reason to fight/kill. Its simply an attempt at explaining it, I mean its easier to hurt/use others in the name of God knowing you'll be rewarded in an afterlife.

In my opinion life is for living, when my death comes I will be ready for its sweet embrace, I don't hope to go to fluffy clouds, I know I won't burn in fire, I've experienced heaven and hell already.

Its like... who's seen the episode of South Park where Cartman goes into the future, after Ms. Garrison and that evolution professor prove that God doesn't exist? And he's taken in by the Allied Athiest Alliance, and they explain how wonderful things got after religion was destroyed... and then they get attacked and killed by the United Athiest Alliance?

Yeah. Individual people can be wonderful, but human nature is a pile of ass and here in America we pretty much live our lives trying to subvert it. Sometimes I think religion was invented to explain why we get the urge to hurt those who irritate us. Blame it all on the devil. Then second-handedly blame it on the people who we don't like right now, because their heathen ways are giving the devil power, or something like that...

But if you think that religion is the cause and not the outlet of this jackassity, check out the ZombieTime website (which the mods tell me I can't link to because there's some non-pornographic pictures of naked people... I just think it's their liberal bias and they hate the truth), for examples of the "progressive community", most of whom are anarchist or various new age religions, acting like savages and lunatics.

Too right..

That south park episode made some real good points.

Religion is an explanation, it works for those who need/want/have faith..

For those that can rationalise all the hate/violence in the world into something else, that is fine too.

Heres an assumption. Has anybody here ever wondered what it was like before they were born? And after you die. You HAVE to be somewhere if you know what I mean. You can't just not exist, you have to be something.

says you

Prove it.

a, I have a friendly question/suggestion for you: have you ever looked into books and articles by great thinkers like C.S Lewis, JP Moreland, and Francis Schaeffer? The site www.bethinking.org has quite a few good articles by these and others. Reading and studying them is a great intellectual exercise and will also help sharpen your arguments

I have respect for the fact that people have different beliefs than I do, and indeed I think I owe a debt of gratitude to atheists and agnostics for helping to sharpen my mind and make me think very deeply about the beliefs that I have because, as scary as it is, stepping outside one's beliefs for a moment and examining them critically, and then finding you still believe them is a great affirmation of those beliefs (just as a side note, I am not sure why some people assume that the religious are not free thinkers; I've been thinking about my beliefs like crazy ever since I was a teen. I find that assumption very condescending). That being said, I think everyone has the right to be vocal about their beliefs, and they have the right to slam and insult another's beliefs, but that doesn't make it a good thing, or a mature thing, or a smart thing to do. I know I take people's ideas a lot more seriously when they don't have to slam or insult or belittle others or use mischaracterizations and generalizations to get their point across, and I find it somewhat hypocritical for someone call another person out just for advocating a belief they disagree with, and then proceed to mock or belittle or talk down to that person.

I think Scintillate was right on the money when he said that people were the problem and not religion. Far more wars have been fought over power and territory than religion, and I think the main reason religion has been misused was because it has unfortunately gotten entangled in politics, particularily in medieval Europe (for instance, Henry VIII cut off ties to the Catholic Church not because of any disagreement with Catholicism, but because they wouldn't anull his marriage to his first wife, Katherine of Aragon, so that he could marry his lover, Anne Boleyn; the Church may have had their own political reasons for this, since Katherine had ties to the emperor of Spain). And, unfortunately, back in those times, violence was simply regarded as the acceptable way to resolve conflicts and take power; it was this way before the rise of monotheism; monotheism didn't make it more violent, and could very well have made it less so. For every war fought over religion, ten or twenty more were probably fought over power and territory. And for every heretic purged, one or five or ten more were probably purged for being threats to the monarchy. It is unrealistic to expect even the saintliest human to be good all the time, as we are all imperfect; the problem is people. And don't forget, the bloodiest century was not the 11th, or the 14th or the 16th, it was the 20th, and it happened at the hands of men who had great disdain for religion, not men who were religious. People will always find something to abuse for their own benefit, and I think the misuse of science is much easier and more dangerous than the misuse of religion. Many people have an unquestioned trust in the authority of science, and the language used to express scientific findings, math, is very, very easily manipulated. And yet, I recognize that the problem is not with science, although I do think that religious values have an important place in society as a protection against the misuse of science.

Die, go towards the light

Born, go towards the light

Who knows, an exit from your current life could just lead to the beginning of the next - Who says you need to be anywhere in between? Of course, that would be a life cycle and one could, if that exists, potentially break out of it for something else?

Who knows? (no one)

I didn't exist at the time, though.

How? I'll be dead. Whole body rotted, done, finished.

Yes, you'll be rotting meat. Or ashes, in my case. Fortunately, neither has the capacity for being particularly unhappy. Once you kill the equipment, the hologram goes with it.