Canadian Federal Election on May 2nd

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They did absolutely horribly, and their leader lost his own riding and stepped down. They have had two referendums, one in 1980, one in 1995. They lost both times. And in 1995 they threw out a lot of Anglo and Allophone votes and still lost. Even cheating, they still lost. I honestly don't think they even want to separate, its just a way for them to keep xenophobic back country Quebecois interested in their party and maintain the profitable levels of undeserved 'equalization payments' that the Feds fork over to them to keep them from whining and threatening another referendum. The BQ/PQ have done nothing good for our province and are a blemish on the face of Canada

Tell them you're taking their benefits away from them, then call another referendum in six months time. They'll still lose. Watch.

Oh, and it makes sense to scrap all those ridiculous Francophone dual-language practices that affect the rest of non-Francophone Canada too. a***holes.

Even the French can't speak their language. Let them cuddle up to a 'motherland' that doesn't want them and looks at them with bemusement.

I'm pretty sure it has been made clear that would happen [removal of benefits] but the BQ keeps maintaining that they are aiming for 'Sovereignty-Association', aka, whiny teenager who wants to move out but get Mom & Dad to keep paying rent and all the bills. The sovereigntist public don't tend to notice this though, as they're likely too busy reading garbage at vigile.net

The main reason I could imagine that you don't just force independence on them is because there are a hell of a lot of good people living there that would be affected by these ethnonationalist dickheads.

No, you misunderstand me.

Next time they particularly get the backs up of the rest of the country, just remove their benefits from them.

Ah sorry. I understand now. I actually would like that to happen. That money should be going to provinces that actually need it, like the Eastern Provinces, or hell, to Nunavut.



Pretty much, but they're doing their best to drive what's left of the Anglo population out. The rich Anglos mostly left in the 70s and 80s. The whole 'class warfare' thing that xenon here buys into is total BS, it stopped being relevant when the Quebecois assumed the reigns of power. I really hate this language issue, it affects my life in a lot of ways. It shouldn't be this way in a country like Canada. I've been assaulted before simply by virtue of being English, in addition to losing a job and having my job security threatened at other times and in the future. They need to stop giving money to this province to satiate their faux-sovereigntist demands. Its absolutely shameful

What you say there makes a lot of sense and I say this as someone that usually disagrees with you.

If you're going to subsidise a group, you don't subsidise those who hate you and discriminate against you, claiming to want nothing to do with you whilst gleefully snatching the cash from your hands.

So, if anyone gets subsidised, there must be far more deserving parts of Canada. Nunavut, for instance, or the other northerly, isolated parts of Canada where not a lot happens. I imagine those places to be hellishly provincial, cold and dark but also to have their own good qualities about them too.

Trust me, the Territories are very highly subsidised. (I lived in Yellowknife NT for the better part of 30 years, including working in the NWT Government, including a stint doing research at the Legislative Assembly.) They're cold and dark in the winter, but pretty damn sunny in the summer. And, surprisingly, not all that provincial; most of the non-natives there have been around and aren't as narrow-minded as, say, your average Prairie farmer might be.

Anyhow, I don't have exact current figures, but IIRC the territories' governments are subsidised to the tune of about 85% of their budgets. And they could use a lot more (lots of substandard housing in Nunavut, for example).

But yes, it'll be interesting to see how the Quebecois handle having a bunch of federalist MPs again for the first time in decades.

My ignorance of Canadian politics shows badly here. I think it's time I left the discussion. It's not my country, after all.

If Quebec had its own currency and could adopt progressive economic policies they'd do better on its own. Surely if a new stingy austerity regime out of Ottawa happened as it threatens then Quebec would be better off away from that stupidity.

This talk of Quebec complaining is typical of Conservatives and they frankly are showing a desire to punish Quebec. This will further divide Quebec from the rest of Canada. If Harper's extremism causes Quebec to separate then that would be his legacy - his being there would prove that English Canada is too rooted in Orangism and other Calvinist stupidity to run a decent country with sane economic policies.

Let me give you an example. John Crow just squeezed the economy like mad in the late '80s early '90s, just squeezed it, and in the name of stupid right wing dogma. What kind of people let such a thing happen? It's good for you, we are told. The best treatments are the most painful - not for the very wealthy for whom such polices are made. It's corruption pure and simple disguised as some kind of morality display.

Last edited by xenon13 on 03 May 2011, 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Oh heavens, no problem. I take discussions like these as great learning opportunities.

Yeah, I've seen the photos of tens of thousands of Orangemen on parade in Toronto and in every loyal town and village in English Canada who hate the French with a passion.

Orangeism in Canada is tiny these days.

It will be interesting indeed. I am actually thinking of going up to the territories at some point. I like the idea of the frontier, and less people... We'll see how things go
@xenon13: I support the right of any people to determine their own destiny. If Quebec ever separated, I hope it would be for the right reasons, and not for the megalomania and xenophobia that the PQ/BQ support. There should be a non-xenophobic separatist party that people could actually respect if they ever expect to separate. Why not try and appeal to Anglos like me (hundreds of thousands of us in Quebec who value this province and its culture) instead of making me feel like I should be expecting Kristallnacht? I really hope the BQ/PQ era is over and a progressive, non-hate based, honest party can represent Quebec sovereignty

Orangism lives in Canada. It's the whole Protestants are superior, the Protestant work ethic, those shiftless listless Catholics and Irish and French Canadians, all so corrupt and evil and mean and nasty. They're always demanding handouts. We, the superior Protestants, we pull ourselves up from our bootstraps. To hell with them!

This idea that French Canada has a monopoly on xenophobia and intolerance annoys me deeply but I see this constantly. Despite the ghastly things always said about French Canadians, despite the hatred of bilingualism, despite the successful efforts to stamp out the French language during the earlier years of Canada, the English-speakers play like they're so morally superior... like that talk show host who would say, "English speakers practice civic nationalism, while those evil French speakers practice ethnic nationalism".

I can't seem to think of any Quebec Anglo politicians who fit your description, while I can think of a few PQists off hand who do. I've lived in Quebec my entire life and felt firsthand the xenophobia of many French Quebecers, and also the openness and kindness of many. And I never said Quebec has a monopoly on it, please spare me the straw man arguments. I feel its impossible to have any dialogue with you separatists because you always fall back on the same fallacies. Can we please have an adult discussion? This is not the first time I've requested this of you, and every time you bring up these same things, or just don't bother replying, I'm really not impressed with disingenuity